Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"
by
SuperClam
on 17/11/2015, 08:28:04 UTC
First - I want to be very clear that I do not consider a crypto network a company or stock offering.
I was simpy suggesting there are parallels.

That said:


In the latter case, there is a legal right to elect a board, which in turn gives control over management and ultimately the assets (shareholders can even vote to dissolve the corporation, which gives them access to the assets directly).
There are no such powers that exist on the part of coin holders.
I would argue, given how liquid exchange is between crypto markets and the transfer-ability of advantage between networks, that coin holders have more control.
It is a near zero fee (ignoring spread) proposition to reallocate resources.
Stock in major public corporations is more liquid than cryptocurrencies (particularly smaller alts) and fees are as low or lower. Smaller corporations and private corporations are less liquid to illiquid of course.
I don't understand the relevance of what you are saying though. If stock or coins change hands, nothing about that process allows stockholders or coin holders to exercise authority over the corporation or the coin network itself. All that happens is one owner is replaced by another.

Ref: "There are no such powers that exist on the part of coin holders."
The network does not exist without users.
Users which choose which version of software to run.
Users which choose which protocol rules to execute on their system.
In proof-of-stake, this additionally implies control of block creation.
How much more "power" is possible?



The debacle around Bitcoin XT illustrates just how 'legal' it is to 'elect a board'.
If Bitcoin XT had dominated the nodes and stakeholders on the network, it would have been the equivalent of "electing" Gavin and Hearn to the board of directors.
I don't understand this paragraph at all

What do a "Board (of directors)" do?
They hire the executive officers of the company and are generally responsible for management of the company for the shareholders.

If the users(shareholders) of BTC had switched to the XT software it would have placed Gavin and Hearn in charge of the Bitcoin network codebase.
What are the protocol rules, other than the policies of the network(company)?



There are really only two things that coin holders can do:
1. Stake according to the network rules and their own individual best interests and without collusion, which makes the network secure provided that the stake is adequately distributed.
2. Individually or in collusion with other coin holders, stake maliciously and "51% attack" the network. This can include: a) blocking all transactions in a sort of doomsday button to destroy the coin, b) selectively blocking transactions (and/or blocks) to gain some advantage for the attacker, c) rewrite the chain to perform double spend attacks.
This idea of coin holder voting is creating a system that facilities and to an extent legitimizes #2. It makes the entire system less secure and therefore ultimately less valuable, even though it may seem expedient in the short term for the purposes of "governance", especially if you happen to be in the majority.
I categorically disagree.
I do not believe there is any redeemable argument against creating a system in which network participants can express their opinion about the direction of development.
The alternative is that the development team pays no mind what-so-ever to the users of the network.
You are entitled to disagree of course, but everything I said about the mechanism by which blockchains function was correct (as far as I know -- if someone spots an error please point it out so I can correct it).

You have characterized the situation where all clients do not agree on the state of the chain as "51% attacks".
That isn't accurate.
By characterizing every disagreement in this way, you've labelled every fork in the history of crypto as a "51% attack".

The power to choose which protocol rules you apply, and hence what the current state of the chain is to your client, is the most fundamental power that a user possesses.



I already answered this. You don't like my answer. It did not involve shills on bitcointalk.

Your answer was essentially: Do nothing, never fork.
Is that correct?

If so, that isn't a valid choice.

Not because it isn't a valid result of all of this, it is; but, because we weren't discussing a fork.

We were discussing a method for the network to express what is desired by stakeholders.
This is verifiable, no other polling method is - that I am aware of.