Re: Estranged Core Developer Gavin Andresen Finally Makes Sensible 2MB BIP Proposal!
The issue is the bandwidth load that individual nodes take on, which due to this "massive redundancy" is not at all comparable to downloading a web page. This speaks to the misinformed comparisons that XT/Classic supporters have often made between a single instance of download stream with many instances of upload stream -- hence why "web page" vs. "block size" makes for such a horrible analogy.
Skype video call = 30mb per 10 minutes outgoing(UPLOAD)
live streaming, outgoing(UPLOAD)
online gaming outgoing(UPLOAD)
the list goes on..
goodluck debunking that bitcoin cannot scale purely because the internet cant cope with webpages. when real examples of things that are more data heavy than webpages are being uploaded from users HOMES all the time. and im not talking about single instances of 5 seconds.. im talking about constant data transmissions that last hours. which proves that in a 10 minute space. more than 2mb can be uploaded.
if thats not good enough: here is another solution:
miners can set up 'blind relay nodes' which are nodes dotted around the internet used purely to relay data without checking, because the miners are sending out the same data to their blind relays so there is no point in their own blind relays re-checking.
imagine it. a miner sends its data to 7 blind relays. and those blind relays send it out to 7 other nodes each (49). the time saving is noticeable compared to one node sending out data to 49 nodes direct
if you want to debunk skype, online gaming and live stream uploads.. maybe you should call those companies first and tell them that the internet cannot cope with their activity first. and that millions of people cannot livestream, cannot online game, cannot make video calls. before you post another comment on this topic
I never said that bitcoin cannot scale. I never said that the internet cannot cope with webpages...
I said that bitcoin has capacity limitations that are linked to bandwidth limitations for individual nodes. Further optimizations like IBLTs and weak blocks could greatly mitigate those limitations (and over time, infrastructural limits to upload bandwidth should improve as well).
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IBLTs and weak blocks: 90% or more reduction in critical bandwidth to relay blocks created by miners who want their blocks to propagate quickly with a modest increase in total bandwidth, bringing many of the benefits of the Bitcoin Relay Network to all full nodes. This improvement is accomplished by spreading bandwidth usage out over time for full nodes, which means IBLT and weak blocks may allow for safer future increases to the max block size.
Once we mitigate these bandwidth limitations, increasing the block size limit stops looking so dangerous.
Franky, all you've proven is that video-conferencing is a slightly better analogy for the upload requirements of running a bitcoin node than is downloading a web page. I don't need to "debunk Skype," as you put it, because the question is not whether "the internet cannot cope with their activity".
The question is absolutely not "can more than 2mb can be uploaded?" The question is not, is it possible to run a node? The question is, at what point do bandwidth limitations disincentivize the operation of full nodes to the extent that centralization endangers security and fungibility? We already know that over the past several years, as block size has gradually increased, operating nodes have persistently fallen. Would you suggest that block size, which is directly related to bandwidth requirements for nodes, is not related to the perpetual decline in nodes? As a node operator, I can tell you that bandwidth is the only possible reason why I wouldn't run a node (as opposed to storage, hard disk resources, hardware). That's the only pressure. Most people do not have unlimited fiber connections. Most people have capped-bandwidth cable or low quality DSL. So the question is not, "can these people run a node, using much or all of their upload bandwidth? Or will they choose not to? The latter is what we must contend with -- and is related to the perpetual decline in nodes over the past couple years.