Re: [ANN][LISK] Lisk | ICO | Decentralized Application & Sidechain Platform
Tell us your best Dapp ideas & win great prizes!
Only 16 hours left to participate and submit your idea!
Decentralized applications can be thought of as the bread and butter of Lisk. Therefore, in order to provide our Lisk Dapp developers with the inspiration to get coding dapps as soon as possible, today we are starting a contest for the best Dapp ideas.
Contest Details
Make a concept for your dream Dapp, and post it to our official forum on the Decentralized Applications board. Your concept can contain descriptions, images, diagrams, projections and code. The more elaborate your concept is, the higher your chance of winning.
The contest starts with this announcement (7th March) and ends on the 13th March, at the same time as the BTC exchange bonus drops from 5% to 0%. Please note, early submissions will have no greater priority over later submissions.
We (Oliver and Max) will elect the three winners ourselves, based upon feedback from the community. Winners will be chosen based on the ideas which we feel will draw the biggest attention, and create practical use-cases for the Lisk network.
Everyone can submit as many ideas as they want. To avoid someone submitting an idea before you have completed a submission, you may briefly describe your idea in a forum post, and then enhance that submission over the course of the week with further materials.
Decision criteria
- Quantity and quality of the concept materials (50%)
- Benefits to the Lisk ecosystem (30%)
- Feasibility (20%)
Prizes
The best three ideas will get their own video similar to this one, which can then be used to promote your idea to potential investors, the Lisk community or business partners.
Additionally, we will give out a Raspberry Pi 2, Raspberry Pi 3 and Lisk T-Shirts, according to the following prizes:
- First prize: Raspberry Pi 3 + Lisk T-Shirt + Video
- Second prize: Raspberry Pi 2 + Lisk T-Shirt + Video
- Third prize: Lisk T-Shirt + Video
We shall also use the Dapp ideas and videos to promote the Lisk platform to potential developers. All concept materials will be made public, and will be placed in the hands of the whole Lisk community
Blog Post Announcement
Only 16 hours left to participate and submit your idea!
Decentralized applications can be thought of as the bread and butter of Lisk. Therefore, in order to provide our Lisk Dapp developers with the inspiration to get coding dapps as soon as possible, today we are starting a contest for the best Dapp ideas.
Contest Details
Make a concept for your dream Dapp, and post it to our official forum on the Decentralized Applications board. Your concept can contain descriptions, images, diagrams, projections and code. The more elaborate your concept is, the higher your chance of winning.
The contest starts with this announcement (7th March) and ends on the 13th March, at the same time as the BTC exchange bonus drops from 5% to 0%. Please note, early submissions will have no greater priority over later submissions.
We (Oliver and Max) will elect the three winners ourselves, based upon feedback from the community. Winners will be chosen based on the ideas which we feel will draw the biggest attention, and create practical use-cases for the Lisk network.
Everyone can submit as many ideas as they want. To avoid someone submitting an idea before you have completed a submission, you may briefly describe your idea in a forum post, and then enhance that submission over the course of the week with further materials.
Decision criteria
- Quantity and quality of the concept materials (50%)
- Benefits to the Lisk ecosystem (30%)
- Feasibility (20%)
Prizes
The best three ideas will get their own video similar to this one, which can then be used to promote your idea to potential investors, the Lisk community or business partners.
Additionally, we will give out a Raspberry Pi 2, Raspberry Pi 3 and Lisk T-Shirts, according to the following prizes:
- First prize: Raspberry Pi 3 + Lisk T-Shirt + Video
- Second prize: Raspberry Pi 2 + Lisk T-Shirt + Video
- Third prize: Lisk T-Shirt + Video
We shall also use the Dapp ideas and videos to promote the Lisk platform to potential developers. All concept materials will be made public, and will be placed in the hands of the whole Lisk community
Blog Post Announcement
This is a story about an exchange
It has 33% of all lisk. It has 101 votes. It votes for 101 of it's 1 lisk wallets.
It has 33% of all lisk. It has 101 votes. It votes for 101 of it's 1 lisk wallets.
You assume that the first 51 delegates have less than 33% of all votes. Where you got that number?
The exchange would have enough of the money supply to control all the delegates. They wouldn't need votes from the people.
If they control delegates proportional to their holdings, that's one thing. But with delegates, they don't even need a majority if the rest of the vote is split.
There is nothing in the protocol to prevent full control by a minority holder. No other blockchain security system has this sort of weakness.
If they control delegates proportional to their holdings, that's one thing. But with delegates, they don't even need a majority if the rest of the vote is split.
There is nothing in the protocol to prevent full control by a minority holder. No other blockchain security system has this sort of weakness.
Yes, people don't need the majority of coins, but only the majority of votes to have temporary control. This is due to the fact that all Lisk users elect the delegates.
It's not true that you state that no other blockchain system has this weakness. ALL others have this as well, but just in a different aspect.
In the case of Proof of Stake coins, the attacks obviously come back to the amount of coins you own. Therefore you can either take the total of coins you need as an argument and the centrality of the pools.
Nxt: There are currently only 411M NXT forging in "forging pools". 11 of the biggest pools have over 50% of all forging power. Due to only 411M NXT forging, you only need to have a bit over 20.55% of all NXT (411/1000*0,5=0,2055). That means NXT is attackable to 20.55% attacks as far as I see it.
In the case of Proof of Work coins, you can only use the pools hash rate as an argument.
Bitcoin: Individual mining is irrelevant. Pools are the only option. There are currently only a handful of pools with a hash rate worth mentioning. Already the top 2 pools have over 50% of all mining power.
What does that mean? It means that crypto-currencies are more centralized than commonly believed.
But! These numbers are all temporary. Same as with Lisk.
In the case of Nxt, the users can
- remove the NXT lease from the forging pools.
- forge on their own to make the total of all NXT forging going to near 100%.
- withdraw their NXT from exchanges who are exploiting their big stake.
In the case of Bitcoin, the users can
- switch pools
- use P2Pools
- Mine on their own again (questionable)
What does it mean for security? In my opinion Proof of Stake is more secure, due to the financial incentive. Why should anyone attack NXT with his own 20% of coins, for which he paid a big amount of money. Of course this argument is more philosophical than mathematical. In terms of pool power Nxt is more decentralized than Bitcoin. In Lisk case the number of "pools" = delegates are even higher.
Let's get back to Lisk. If an exchange owns so many LISK, the users can at least see and countercheck easily if the exchange is voting with these LISK. It's all visible with this API call:
Code:
/api/accounts/delegates/?address=address
If you don't know the delegate address of an exchange, only the address of the regular exchange account, then this API call helps you out:
Code:
/api/delegates/voters?publicKey=publicKey
For example on our test network for the delegate 'genesisDelegate52':
Code:
https://login.lisk.io/api/delegates/voters?publicKey=07868b5b97233eb5ce301edfd16601e1ecf2661481b39a0bdea59391104dc42c
Results in:
Code:
{"success":true,"accounts":[{"address":"17649443584386761059L","balance":0},{"address":"12475940823804898745L","balance":2010000700},{"address":"10264531957766216184L","balance":8870000000},{"address":"14219782977503476609L","balance":54650000000},{"address":"9564105524193969327L","balance":79200000000},{"address":"14351749629158385068L","balance":79240000000},{"address":"800918319007426191L","balance":79690000000},{"address":"11339622397070425761L","balance":79790000000},{"address":"10552444389043734240L","balance":79900000000},{"address":"4838376936255854793L","balance":79980000000},{"address":"9363468559265530069L","balance":79990000000},{"address":"13496593907171241705L","balance":80300000000},{"address":"7797118170050130947L","balance":88490000000},{"address":"13278231667654341222L","balance":89100000000},{"address":"13667581226236683784L","balance":89580000000},{"address":"14968906762435933462L","balance":89700000000},{"address":"2970227194578908531L","balance":89700000000},{"address":"13921127593811670351L","balance":89800000000},{"address":"14636091225572299068L","balance":89800000000},{"address":"16075773430694729476L","balance":89800000000},{"address":"2465376505472839010L","balance":89800000000},{"address":"8797390455410370280L","balance":89800000000},{"address":"10589996627203409984L","balance":89900000000},{"address":"13006468928470284770L","balance":89900000000},{"address":"14080308827940367132L","balance":89900000000},{"address":"12248536304420527538L","balance":99800000000},{"address":"14624302329273634583L","balance":99900000000},{"address":"15806643322935220312L","balance":179500000000},{"address":"930710356977214870L","balance":477570000000},{"address":"40565469756652219L","balance":1048000000000},{"address":"13929185126330236760L","balance":1076470000000},{"address":"12771083228258353736L","balance":10074300000000},{"address":"2686619600065520376L","balance":9599849950000000}]}
If an exchange is abusing his power, people can see it and act. In this case they can withdraw the LISK from this exchange (decreasing the voting power of the exchange) and voting with the withdrawn LISK for other delegates (increasing the difference to the exchange even further).
Also, it's not a 51% attack. It is a 100% attack by a minority holder. A minority holder can control 100% of the security mechanism. That can't be said of Bitcoin or any PoS system.
A "51% attack" is just the laymen term. It's in fact a ">50% attack" and every ">50% attack" automatically is a "100% attack" as well, at least practically. If you own the majority of a system, the system is yours.
You are again wrong that this can't be said about other systems.
- At Bitcoin someone who owns 0 BTC can have the most mining power and control the whole system. (It's possible, but unlikely)
- At Nxt someone who owns 0 NXT, but received over 20% of all NXT as leased NXT can control the whole system. (Extremely unlikely)
- However, at Lisk someone with 0 LISK will have it EXTREMELY difficult to find the trust of the community to get enough votes for 51 delegates. That means he needs more votes (LISK amount*10^8) than the 51th delegate received in total from the whole network.
This is the networks responsibility to vote accordingly and get the best security out of the DPoS system.
I'll accept that this is a reasonable system if a balance vote is split among the 101 delegates. For example if a wallet has 101 LISK and votes for 101 delegates, each would get 1 LISK worth of vote.
This won't work. Everyone would only vote for himself and everyone who owns more than 1% LISK could run at least 1 delegate forever. This is unfair, because nobody else could prevent him from doing so.
How we get more people voting:
We will introduce a "Forging Pool" in the future (as a dapp). Delegates can run them on their nodes and register their delegate account on the sidechain. With this pool the delegates can then distribute a part of their earnings to the voters automatically every X days.
This will create an incentive for users to withdraw funds from the exchanges and vote for trusted individuals. In order to confirm trusted individuals, we will introduce an "Identity Dapp" in the future, in which people can associate their account with an username, real name, social media profiles, photo, and much more.
More information about all this will follow before we launch.