Quote from: Dalkore on January 04, 2013, 06:40:34 PM

Quote from: myrkul on January 04, 2013, 06:29:00 PM

But if it's mutually beneficial, who would not purchase such a service voluntarily?

- I will actually use your line, there are irresponsible idiots

Indeed there are. And, except in the case of actual public goods, they would not receive the benefits of the programs they did not pay for. Thus, the brutal existence for them. If they remained irresponsible idiots, short as well.

Quote from: Dalkore on January 04, 2013, 06:40:34 PM

Quote from: myrkul on January 04, 2013, 06:29:00 PM

Those are called, in economics, "public goods." Can you name some of those services? Can you think of some ways that they could be made profitable without resorting to forcing people to pay? Can you think of any ways that it might be paid for entirely voluntarily, with each person giving only as much as they desire?

- I have named these services many times so it feel redundant repeating this list. I think you can figure those out yourself. Hint: Domestic Army, Basic Preventative Health Care, Infrastructure, Education, Incarceration Facilities, Elections, Archival of Historic Records, etc....

These services should all be done not for profit and people should be required to pay. No choice.

If they can be done without force, and for profit, can you explain why they should not be?

Quote from: Dalkore on January 04, 2013, 06:40:34 PM

No I don't think they can be paid for voluntarily because people are in whole pretty selfish and irresponsible. This is why I think AnCap will never succeed unless you can change this aspect of human behavior.

They're irresponsible because they can be. Why get a job, when you can live off welfare and food stamps? Why save for retirement, when you can collect social security? Why save for a rainy day, when if you get fired, unemployment will pay you? I know you just want to help. I just wish that you would see that the help is what's causing the problems.

The only public goods you presented up there were Domestic Army ("national" defense), and infrastructure. The rest are either private goods, such as education, or not goods at all, such as elections. Infrastructure is easy to make profitable, or for that matter, turn into a private good. Toll roads, for instance.

The defense is a bit of a problem, since there is the positive externality of all the people who don't pay getting defended along with those who do. Of course, those who don't pay probably are taking care of their own defense, with a small arsenal of weapons. Therefore, they provide that same positive externality back to the community. Seems an equitable tradeoff to me. And as long as the defense company is able to run profitably, without charging so much that people stop paying, then they find it a fair trade as well.