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ArticMine here you are again posting your inkblots. Slow down and try to understand your mistakes. Go take some quiet time and think for a while before you respond, so you don't fill up thread with useless noise.
I am saying that is as the "transaction-related costs" approach the minted block reward, then the Tragedy of the Commons in transaction fees results. This has nothing to do with a fixed per KB transaction fee, but rather the costs of actually processing the transactions. You have to factor in that costs include the fact in proof-of-work mining, that a 0.1% hashrate miner must propagate and validate 100% of the systemic transaction volume (yet he is only paid 0.1% portion of the total systemic rewards, and probably even paid less because of selfish mining and asymmetric propagation costs due to mining on the wrong chain part of time).
And any way, the entire discussion is irrelevant, because regardless, the economies-of-scale in proof-of-work dictate that it is a winner-take-all power vacuum. So you are just wasting your time any way arguing about the transaction fee aspect.
The inevitable mining cartel (presuming Monero becomes economically relevant) will dictate transaction fees in Monero as well, and also control the mining and all the bad impacts (censorship, deanonymization, etc) that come with it.
Sorry. Better luck next time.
Again a false assumption
bold since there is no explanation how this is supposed to happen in the presence of a fixed tail emission. This assumption is up against:
1) The Equation of Exchange in economics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_exchange MV = PQ. What is being assumed here is to increase Q without a corresponding decrease in P. Or to put it in simpler terms one cannot expect a 100x increase in the number of transactions (Q) in Monero without a corresponding increase in 1/P (purchasing power) of the tail emission in Monero.
2) The fall in real terms of the unit cost of the "transaction related costs". The best example of the latter is the credit card industry. The transaction throughput of the VISA network today would not be possible with the technology of 1949 (punched cards, tabulating machines telegraph lines etc. ) This is relevant because the business model that was conceived in 1949 for Diner's Club, retail payments of high margin luxury goods and services (Tiffany & Co.). fails today when it is applied to very low margin retail purchases of commodity items (Walmart). We do not see American Express at war with Tiffany & Co but we sure see VISA ar war with Walmart. I wonder why.
Edit 1: The only other variable in the equation of exchange that can change is V (The velocity) and changing V would require a change in use of the coin. M is set by the protocol and cannot be changed. One time changes in V and the slight increase in M due to inflation are more than compensated by the drop in real terms of the unit cost of the "transaction related costs".
Edit 2: One cannot simply extrapolate what are valid assumptions in Bitcoin to Monero without running into some very serious problems.
I expect V to be on the order of 10 - 100 for a microtransaction coin for use on all the activities we do on the Internet. So a minted block reward in the realm of ~1% would require transaction-related costs that are less than 0.01 - 0.1%. Yet microtransaction values may be so small that actual costs may be higher than that. Most damning is my additional point which you did not respond to:
You have to factor in that costs include the fact in proof-of-work mining, that a 0.1% hashrate miner must propagate and validate 100% of the systemic transaction volume (yet he is only paid 0.1% portion of the total systemic rewards, and probably even paid less because of selfish mining and asymmetric propagation costs due to mining on the wrong chain part of time).
So for the control over mining to remain decentralized and for their to be a viable fee market, this means the 0.1% hashrate miner has to have transaction-related costs in the realm of 0.0001 - 0.001% of the tiny microtransaction values of transactions. You may argue that Monero will be a coin for high valued transactions and you don't think microtransactions are important, and I will rebut by arguing that it will not survive then as a system of money:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1319681.msg16969596#msg16969596https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1693466.msg16993233#msg16993233https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1685115.msg16993524#msg16993524Also although costs will decline over the decades, transaction volumes can also increase at that rate or faster than Moore's law.
And lastly, as I said arguing about your tail reward is pointless, because it can't stop the economies-of-scale which cause proof-of-work (in Monero, Bitcoin, etc) to be a power vacuum which is a winner-take-all economic system. You didn't even address this point:
And any way, the entire discussion is irrelevant, because regardless, the economies-of-scale in proof-of-work dictate that it is a winner-take-all power vacuum. So you are just wasting your time any way arguing about the transaction fee aspect.
The inevitable mining cartel (presuming Monero becomes economically relevant) will dictate transaction fees in Monero as well, and also control the mining and all the bad impacts (censorship, deanonymization, etc) that come with it.
Sorry. Better luck next time.
Edit: apologies about the gloating. I am just letting out some pent up frustration about the way I felt about the way (some or most of the) Monero folk were so sure they were superior to everyone else. That had really alienated me and I admit it one of driving motivations I have. I understand the importance of building a community, but not a community that thinks that no other experimentation from outside can be valuable. Any way talk is cheap. So unless someone demonstrates a better way, then it is useless for me speculate verbally about what sort of community I would like to be a part of.