Quote from: dinofelis on March 29, 2017, 11:26:14 AM

Quote from: kiklo on March 29, 2017, 10:34:17 AM

Quote from: dfd1 on March 29, 2017, 10:00:11 AM

Regarding permissionless network. Delegated currencies, like DPoS steemit or DPoW bitcoin, has a potential problem with possible transaction moderation. Pools or witnesses can censor transactions from known annoying persons, and people can vote for these pools or witnesses with their stake or hashrate to exclude annoying person from the network, put assets on hold or even rewrite transactions like it was with ETH. I think good enough solution we can come with is delegated block signing by master nodes and voting for trusted block signers run by an algorithm. Master nodes can form consensus to exclude slow and messy peers from signing, master nodes don't need any approval from stakeholders, with big enough deposit required for master node setup there will be no room for Sybil attack. Optionally, there can be even some penalty to deposit for unhonest signers. It's still delegated PoS without randomness and network reorganisations, so block time can be very short and block size can be huge. Block chain can have 200tb of data and run fine since master nodes rewarded for their service and can afford high speed connection and huge storage. Instead of spending millions to securing network with hashrate there can be an incentive to build decentralized infrastructure for block chain storage, so it can be network of millions of master nodes with current price people pay to miners.
Since too moral or annoyed master nodes get kicked out by an algorithm for messing with transactions network become provable permissionless.

Pet Peeve of mine, that word permissionless is untrue.
All coins are Permissioned.

Quote from: kiklo on September 29, 2016, 05:06:10 AM

Here is why PoW is Permissioned, ( mined on a CPU or ASIC)
Facts
Permissions Required to generate a PoW Block if you Mine it
1. Permission from the ASICS seller , to buy their ASIC.
2. Permission from your local Govenment to allow the ASIC to be shipped to you.
3 Permission from the Electric Company to power your ASIC.
4. Permission from the Mining pool you have to join because group mining is your only shot
5. Permission from your ISP , so you have internet access to attempt to mine it.
6. Permission from the original programmer thru the Open Source License granted so you can run the software.
If you pay someone else to mine it , You need their permission and acceptance of your currency.

Permissions Required if you just buy it. (Same for PoW & PoS)
1. Permission from the Exchange
2. Permission from the Seller

Free Faucet (Same for PoW & PoS)
1. Permission from the one running the faucet

Hopefully we can put that falsehood permissioned verses permissionless to rest , because nothing peeves me more that hearing the same lie more than once.
There are No Permissionless systems in crypto.

I think you are stretching the notion of "permissionless" so much that you are of course coming to a contradiction. Permissionless only pertains to participating in all the SYSTEM functions, not in what you can do with it *in relationship with others*. The fact that nobody wants to sell me a gun against bitcoin (nor against cash), doesn't make bitcoin lacking permissionless. I can still use the bitcoin system to send coins to any address, and I can receive bitcoin from any user *that wants to*.
As to mining, nothing stops me from building my own ASIC factory and participating. The fact that *existing* asic vendors don't want to sell me some of their production is not "bitcoin's" problem. It would be, if these ASICS needed a certificate from Satoshi in order to function. Then inherently, bitcoin mining wouldn't be permissionless. But that's not the case.

You can also claim that prisoners are not permissioned to use bitcoin, so bitcoin is not permissionless. But that has nothing to do with bitcoin, but with society as a whole, who isn't persmissionless. In other words, you're building a straw man. If you continue your logic, crypto is a useless affair, because in the end, the government and their judges decide on everything.

Dino , Seriously
6. Permission from the original programmer thru the Open Source License granted so you can run the software. Wink

There are No Permissionless systems in crypto.

Cool