Re: [ANN] ChipMixer - mixing reinvented

So i'm wondering as well - what if someone decides to frame Chipmixer by saying that they got hacked/chipmixer did an inside job when they really just sent the bitcoins to themselves? there would be no proof either way, but the guy can do this under multiple accounts and then people will say chipmixer is a scam.

There is nothing any site can do against this. You can say any exchange, casino or other site gave you a deposit-address and changed it right after you deposited.

That is not true. Bitmixer offers letter of guarantee. They show input and output addresses and signs them with their private key. Customer see it before they deposit. This is very nice feature and we would really like to have it, but we cannot. Their method is non-interactive and both inputs and outputs are known before deposit and if anything goes wrong, they can complain public. Output of ChipMixer is unpredictable - you can pick whatever chip sizes you want, you can bet, you can freeze them with vouchers. It offers better privacy, but downside is that we cannot offer letter of guarantee.

I was not familiar with the letter of guarantee method used by Bitmixer, but now that you have mentioned it, I wonder why it isn't possible with ChipMixer. Once the mixing amounts have been confirmed by the user, would it not be possible to sign a message containing the final chips being output in the mixing process, along with the input? The chip sizes may not be known prior by ChipMixer, but once they are chosen by the user wouldn't it be possible to include in a signed message?

I have not yet tried either of the mixers out myself, so please forgive me if I misunderstand the process involved in either of these.

Receipt - a writing acknowledging the receiving of goods or money.

Other mixers send Bitcoin directly to address we give them. After they send Bitcoin to our addresses, they give us receipt or signed message saying they have send x.xxxBTC to

. However, ChipMixer doesn't actually send Bitcoin, they give us private key related to the address which has Bitcoin. Either we or ChipMixer can send Bitcoin from that address. In worst case, a hacker if the private key was stolen. So they can't give a "receipt".

If they give receipt after mixing and before they give us private keys, then they are essentially saying "we paid you" even before "paying" us. That is not a "receipt".

If they give a signed message mentioning they have sent us private keys like they are already doing, that is only a "receipt" saying "we have send you private key(s)", not "we have send you Bitcoin" because they can send Bitcoin from that address anytime if they want.

ChipMixer's signed receipt:

Code:

--- MESSAGE ---
This is a receipt / confirmation that you have received following
private keys from ChipMixer:
### CHIP SIZE: BTC
Address:

; Private key:
### CHIP SIZE: BTC
Address:

; Private key:

This message is signed with ChipMixer's Bitcoin address:
1ChipMwvHe5tewb1Uqa9bbZZJDmgPV1TC7

--- SIGNATURE ---

--- END ---

Quote from: magneto on July 09, 2017, 10:54:10 AM

First of all I find it extremely unlikely that any competitors would want to 'frame' chipmixer as a scammer. That is extremely unlikely. There is a possibility that a user just wants to get free coins.

Be in a safe environment and make sure your computer is free of viruses. Chipmixer has no reason to steal your money when they've spent so much on developing and promoting this. Sweep the keys if you need to.

I find it odd that people think chipmixer is somehow less trustworthy than other services who just send the coins directly to you. If you think about it it's about exactly the same likelihood that they will scam, which is almost zero especially if dealing with small amounts.

You have misunderstood something! By not giving us receipt, even if they do steal, we can't prove because we also have access to the funds which makes it easier for a scam to happen. It does NOT mean other services are safer! Just that if they send to a wrong address or if the funds were stolen, we can prove it in most cases and ask them for a refund. For ChipMixer, it is not possible even if it is their fault.

P.S. A hack/steal could also mean stealing private key from their server. Although chances of happening this are very low, it could happen. I hope if this is the case, ChipMixer will give a refund!

They CAN scam us and they MIGHT scam us! But it does NOT mean they WILL! Like others have said, it comes down to how much you trust them. ChipMixer offers features others don't offer and there are drawbacks for offering such features. If you don't like ChipMixer or is afraid they may scam you, don't use them! FYI, I have used ChipMixer recently! Both their service and their support are great!

Ah, yes. Now it makes sense. Since ChipMixer does not actually send the bitcoin anywhere, but instead just provides the private key, there would be no way to use a letter of guarantee confirming that the key would indeed end up in the possession of the person starting the process. Therefore, it would not be possible for ChipMixer to do this like bitmixer does. Is this correct?