Quote from: Gaben. on March 16, 2018, 12:29:41 PM

Quote from: Shnikes101 on March 15, 2018, 05:17:50 PM

Quote from: Gaben. on March 15, 2018, 04:58:16 PM

...so let me get this right.

The biggest claim with regards to monerov being a scam are that they are having people enter their private key in a closed source wallet?

Correct me if I'm wrong what what's the harm in waiting for an open source one?

Also, being given the option to sell/monetize personal transaction histories at will en masse seems like a major opportunity I would think?

The biggest concern for Monero is the potential damage of privacy via an on chain fork that requires private key use to claim an airdrop. Private key reuse is a new-ish attack vector on the network.

My guess is that they could care less whether or not its a scam.
However, claims regarding a scam revolve around the unknown team, closed source software, 10x airdrop, >5% premine, questionable claims on finite supply, coin serves a duplicate or unknown purpose and despite being made aware how their on chain fork damages the privacy of both networks they're moving forward.

It will be interesting to see who or if any exchange supports them.

Wouldn't the potential 'damage to privacy' claim necessarily be dependent on whether or not the pk is actually shared publicly, or rather with someone collecting many? Is it being implied that a closed source wallet would automatically upload your private keys to some tla database is a little much I think. Especially if anyone is running Windows, operating over a WiFi connection, etc... I mean chances are they already got the data if they want it.

So aside from that, the concern i can discern would be more toward an unaffiliated third party (utp) like a marketing agency having the ability to monetize transaction data, if they obtained the private key of a wallet through this means. Alternatively, the tax man could also purchase such data from the utp. For one - there are a series of legal precedents that need to be considered before that could happen which I haven't had much thought on, and have not read much.

Over the next few months, monerov and it's affilitates (provided this isn't some elaborate scalping) will be filling this role. From there onwards, others may likely do the same.

My point here is that regardless of what monerov is doing now - years down the line what's stopping literally anyone from forking monero and actually releasing a closed source wallet with published capacity to add your pk to a database and use said information for whatever purpose they wish? What if some utp decides to put up a market peg of a million dollars bid in exchange for as many pk's as will fill the order?

Outside of the general phishing risk that occurs with private key reuse - I'd agree that scale most likely matters on the transaction Key Image attack vector. From what I've read though, I'm leaning towards that information isn't private. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From the SerHack article that I posted above:
"Each Monero transaction generates a key image that secretly encodes the amount of Monero transferred and the public address of the true sender. These key images typically protect transaction anonymity while preventing double-spending attacks and illegitimate attempts to inflate the Monero supply with fake coins. It is dangerous to claim MoneroV because these key images will be identical on both chains, which can be exploited to reveal the true sender of both transactions. This reduction in privacy allows Monero (and MoneroV) transactions to be linked in a manner that is not typically possible. The negative ramifications extend far beyond the individuals that use both chains, since any user on either chain may unknowingly employ compromised transactions as decoy ring members."

I'd disagree with "Chances are they already got it." I'd also disagree that there are legal precedents in this space. Please provide sources and/or an explanation for your reasoning.

I'm confused on what role you think MoneroV and it's affiliates will be filling? (and who MoneroV and its affiliates are). Are you implying that MoneroV main purpose is marketing Monero transaction data? A quest to destroy Monero's privacy?

If future parties present new on chain forks that require your private keys in a blatant phishing attempt or attack on the network, the community will do exactly what they are doing now. Make people aware of the risks and build tools to help protect the network in the future.

Look, myself and I'm assuming many others in this thread are more than willing to support a new coin that introduces new and better privacy technology. In fact, I'd almost wager that it is inevitable for a better product to eventually come to market. The fact is MoneroV doesn't introduce any new tech and potentially harms the privacy of both networks. Despite being made aware of their flawed approach, MoneroV pushes forward with no new technology to speak of. I'd agree that the only value add MoneroV has presented is introducing a new attack vector that needed to be solved - which Monero Devs are actively working to mitigate. There's a chance some new tools make it into the next release that will further mitigate this attack and types like it in the future.

For fun - another one of my favorite MoneroV claims is that the MyMonero wallet not only supports but is the best wallet to use to claim your shitdrop.
Of course, MyMonero has to then write a post saying that is false: https://medium.com/@tweetingpauls/beware-of-non-native-forks-of-monero-6f5a0bf1fccf