Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on September 20, 2018, 09:37:10 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on September 19, 2018, 07:42:18 PM

In the West many people would argue the roles the OP describes are reversed and they feel like the women get to relax while the men work. Of course this is a generalization, but it does not make it inaccurate. There are many social and economic differences that cause these results in both places.

I agree with that this used to be the case, but luckily attitudes have changed very fast over the past few decades and now men and women are mostly equal on this front (at least in my country), though obviously some women do choose to stay at home and be 'housewives' and look after the children and so on. I have no issue with that as long as it's their choice and there's no expectation on them. I have no issue with a man staying at home and doing this role instead either.

Quote from: TECSHARE on September 19, 2018, 07:42:18 PM

IMO marriage was originally conceived of to build society, and a lot of evidence supports this premise.

I don't agree with this. Marriage was essentially created for men to claim ownership of "their" property ie wives, not for the betterment of society. I think marriage is born out of male insecurity and wanting some kind of contract that legally ties the women to them forever. I think a lot of oppression of women is born out of male insecurity and them not being able to handle the thought of anyone 'messing' with "their" property/wife. Why do women in some Muslim countries wear burka or niqabs? Those were rules imposed by the men of society because they want to keep "their" women covered so no other men get any ideas and are enticed by a bit of skin and try have their way with their wife. Once that women is married then they become the property of that man and the only person who should lay eyes on them are their husbands and that's a very sad state of affairs

Yes, yes. I have been hearing my whole life and reading about even before that, where everyone is so self confident and ready to reassure themselves that we are superior to societies of the past, and have shed the stagnation of tradition with only improvement in the state of society. Also about how "equal" men are to women, but some genders are "more equal" than others depending on the prevailing socioeconomic status of the host culture.

In the Western nations women are are literally a protected class with special privileges above men. There is LITERALLY not one right for example in the USA that men have and women don't. However I could build quite a list of rights women have that men don't in the US as well as many other Western nations, not only in law but in practice.

Your opinions are little more than poorly informed knee-jerk reactions based upon standard neo-feminist indoctrination. Women can do no wrong under your rubric, and any cause in their name is a good cause no matter how destructive. Comparing all marriage to Muslim treatment of women is an intellectually dishonest comparison and little more than an attempt to smear by association.

Marriage is a compromise for both men and women. Traditionally men were responsible for their wife and children. This included providing for them and protecting them. In exchange the husband was to be provided with children, have them tended to, and be treated with deference. Honestly it is not that much to ask in exchange but Western women are conditioned by people like you that marriage is equivalent to their ownership by a man. Also, marriage ensures women, that once their reproductive years were over, they would not just be cast aside to be alone in her old age in favor of a younger and still actively reproductive woman. What a coincidence that we also have a flood of discontent aging single women in the West with men in their same age bracket not at all interested in them as relationship prospects.

Also, now days if a woman can not provide for or protect herself, the state will do so. Of course this is still paid for by men, by other men holding them at a point of a gun to collect that revenue to pay for those women to live.

So as you see men in the West now have all of the responsibility of marriage but none of the benefits. Women still get the benefits of marriage through the state while having less responsibility for themselves. It is little wonder men in the West are checking out en-mass, as divorce rates skyrocket, and reproductive rates drop like a rock, but who needs a family unit right?

However, please do enlighten me on how well things have been going since post modernism rolled out this sociological hellhole.