Post
Topic
Board Mining
Re: Vladimir's essential self-defence guide for Bitcoin Miners
by
AnnihilaT
on 24/08/2011, 19:32:25 UTC

B) I'm likely the source of the "lazy" tag for miners who just sit on one pool and don't try to optimize their mining revenue. I'll add that if these miners are anti-hopper then they are more than likely intellectually dishonest as well as lazy. I only have to reference the polmine miners who are fleeing the pool now that they are stuck on a 9 million block. There are numerous examples of miners "hopping" away from pools when they hit long blocks. Those are just slow hoppers. The deepbit 24/7 miners really are lazy and are detrimental to bitcoin. We hoppers provide a valuable service to bitcoin itself, which is infinitely more important to me than some whiny miners.

I can't say it better than Vladimir himself:  "Guess just like predators in nature you serve your purpose, eliminating stupid miners and advancing evolution and making bitcoin stronger. Whoever mines constantly in one of the pools successfully hopped by you surely deserves what he gets."

Well, actually I guess I can say it better and did privately to Vladimir 2 hours before he started this thread:
"Taking your point to its logical conclusion though you have to acknowledge that it is we hoppers who are the ethical ones. We are working literally around the clock (check the irc channel and git commits) to improve our methods and that in turn improves bitcoin. The miners who just buy a GPU, point it at a pool and walk away are the true leeches on the system, the unethical ones. They are the ones looking for money for nothing. We hoppers are at least putting in the time to justify our small percentage of extra earnings. We improve and strengthen bitcoin - they add nothing. If we can drive them out, fine. Hell, you do your best to convince every other miner in the world to quit. We are simply aiding in your effort, we are an extension of your effort.

I understand you have to take a public stance against us. That's alright. We both know that you benefit from us. We can continue to play the game. We aren't enemies, we are both on the side of making bitcoin dominant. Everybody plays a part. You keep playing yours and we'll keep playing ours."

Vladimir launching a PR campaign to try to paint himself as the defender of miners is a little on the nose. He's the most predatory of miners and for that I applaud him. At least he gets it and is self-serving even in his "self-defense" diatribe. You bleeding hearts with your "concern" for those poor miners hurt by hopping are dangerous to bitcoin. The sooner you get out of the evolutionary path and the bitcoin gene pool, the better. You want to compete against world currencies and yet you weep for the weak and ignorant? You will be devoured by the global financial market and spit out before you can even get your boots on.

Finally a rational post without crazy claims and ridiculous accusations.  There is some logic and truth in PIECES of what you say.  If you speak this way im much more inclined to at least see your side of this issue.   I dont have to agree but if you take the time to explain yourself i can at least understand where you are coming from.  

A few key points;
1) working hard is not the same thing as being ethical.
2) if everyone hopped and there were no loyal miners no blocks would be solved.  In time, you all would eventually hop yourselves and bitcoin to death if there were no 24/7 miners to save you.

I still believe that in the long term you are hurting and not helping only to maximize your own profits.  As an individual i can understand your motivation for doing this and can appreciate the effort it takes.  But i still stand by my opinion that you are exploiting a system for personal gain with no regard to the long term consequences.  

As a pool operator, on the other hand,  we have a fiduciary duty to protect our miners (non-hoppers) from the consequences of pool-hoppers.  The loyal miners are the ones that will solve that elusive block when all the hoppers are long gone because the round lasted longer than they were willing to stick around for.   They should be rewarded for that.  A share has no value.  Its an arbitrary proof of work and nothing more.  Its the blocks that matter and if you wont stick around until one is found why should you share in the bounty?
Whether you agree with that or not - surely you at least see the honesty in it.

As for the bleeding heart garbage... you can throw that out the window... i protect my miners so they can maximize their income so that in turn i can maximize pool revenue and charity donations to bitcoin developers.  Simple, really.

You and I are on flip sides of the same bitcoin.