I thought Juve would win, too, even without Ronaldo. With all the chaos at Barcelona and the loss of some good players, and Messi being kept there against his will, and against the backdrop of that disastrous Bayern result last season, it's easy to see them as a team in freefall that has no chance of competing against the best teams in Europe... but that's clearly not the case, even when they are poor there is still a strong team there.