Re: The completely evaluation of Dragon 1 T bitcoin miner from china
Looks fishy!
The miner or the previous post? The miner looks legit.Why no video of the miner to prove it is working? What is the identity of the person selling? If the device generates a good revenue, why is being (re)sold?
Because the chips in these machines are stolen property.
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It is as simple as that.
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.
But even as Bitmine had an early start on availability of chips and great cheap costs, they FAILED to deliver their system successfuly and on time.
So AFTER my systems of 60T RUNNING over 1 month, and start to sell to public, Bitmine's system still NOT seeying anywhere.
From pespective of marketing strategy, this accusation is just a tactic to slow down our sales.
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.
But even as Bitmine had an early start on availability of chips and great cheap costs, they FAILED to deliver their system successfuly and on time.
So AFTER my systems of 60T RUNNING over 1 month, and start to sell to public, Bitmine's system still NOT seeying anywhere.
From pespective of marketing strategy, this accusation is just a tactic to slow down our sales.
I agree. Both Bitmine and Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to develop the chips, and no-one has posted any proof as to exactly what legal rights Innosilicon has to resell the chips, but it's certainly plausible that they do have some resale agreement based on the contract between the two companies. Innosilicon could have paid for part of the development in order to be able to retain some ownership of the IP.
It sounds like QuestionTime is simply spreading FUD to try to show down a potential competitor to Bitmine. Either post proof to back up your claims of IP theft or STFU.
If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.
We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.
We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.
From that link:
Quote
Designed from scratch, Bitmines Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.
Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.
I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.
Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:
http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178
Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.
Yes, that's China.
Authorised distributors of bitmine tech: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204 - unless the chips were sourced from one of these guys or bitmine themselves it's corporate theft.
Bitmine have already made themselves quite clear on the issue and until they've made a statement retracting the previous statement it's much more likely the the statement was deleted/moderated rather than retracted. Furthermore, we have yet to hear anything from Innosilicon to suggest that they have obtained the rights from bitmine to produce these chips for sale.
Certainly it's plausible Innosillion also have the rights to sell the chip, but it is also certainly plausible Innosilicon does not have the rights to sell the chip. In the absence of an official statement from Innosilicon contradicting the official statement from bitmine and the presence of the well known culture of rampant IP theft that goes on in China, on the balance of probabilities, it is much more likely the Chinese machines using 28nm A1 chips from Innosilicon are the product of stolen property and therefore illegal to receive and/or possess in most common law jurisdictions.
Customers have the right to purchase goods that are 100% legitimately manufactured. I would not want to buy a car that has been assembled from stolen parts.
Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.
Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.
for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060
Yes. Those are from my company.
Alright, thanks for making that official
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?
I will let someone put more pictures here.
I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.
Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011
Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.
Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.
Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.
Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.
for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060
I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)
Yes. Those are from my company.
Alright, thanks for making that official
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?
I will let someone put more pictures here.
I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.
Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011
Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.
Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.
Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.
JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before
Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share.
What is actually Innosilicon's current position on this matter is this, and I quote from their web :
"Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field."
This might mean, that :
a) Bitmine.ch has patented (patent pending), their HPP proces (sublicenced from GF and forked), based on their Bitcoin Mining IP core
b) Innosilicon has given permission to Bitmine.ch to use their ultra-low-power Hash IP core for 28 nm DIE for chips produced by Innosilicon for Bitmine, and probably given only to Bitmine and nobody else.
c) Who did customized VLSI computational Marco cell (power train in 28 nm) - Synapse, Verisilicon, Innosilicon, Bitmine or GlobalFoundries is not known to me at this point. Also not known if this customized VLSI method is patented by someone.
Even though somebody could obtain licence from Innosilicon for power layer, other layers are still not Innosilicon property, so without Bitmine's sublicence on final design, full tapeout of cloned chips is not [legally] possible.
It has nothing to do with BRANDNAME - "COINCRAFT A1" as s BRAND, but with TOPOGRAPHIC DESIGN OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, which is SEPARATE LEVEL OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION FROM BRAND(NAME) PROTECTION, patent pending according to Madrid Convention of the World Intelectual property organisation. Patents are accesible from WIPO portal, and they are many, and non of which are the property JingTian.
Exactly.
I think the that the typical consumer is really only going to care about:
1) When can I get it?
2) How much does it cost?
3) Will it do what I need it to?
1) When can I get it?
2) How much does it cost?
3) Will it do what I need it to?
4) Will my unit perform as well as the demo unit
5) Will my order be fulfilled before they run out of stolen chips
6) Will I get in trouble with the police by having this unit, if it makes it past customs
7) Will I need to justify to the police why my other mining hardware are legitimate and should not be seized