Government is not Other people ganging up on you - even though frequently, it may seem as if an individual cannot do much to change the society in which s/he lives, but government is NOT the same as a thief.
I have already made my point several times that a person asserting that the government is the same as a thief is failing to recognize complexity..
you have made absolutely NO point. You just keep repeating, that government is not the same as a gang of thugs and taxation is not the same as stealing, then fail to elaborate why. Then you accuse other people of doing exactly that - repeating one point without adding any arguments. Also you keep saying that "it is not the same, because it is complex" and you complain about fuzzy logic?? Sorry, this holds no ground.
O.K. we are NOT getting anywhere, and I do NOT want to waste additional time on these various arguments that some people believe the solution to all woes is to get rid of government and the sooner we do it, the better.... what a disaster in the making.
I think I have seen your sort of outlook enough times to recognize the basic principles behind it. Would I be correct in assuming, that you think that:
1) government is a necessary part of society without which society can not function
You are NOT correct to think these various points b/c these are NOT my points.
Regarding your first point: I am saying that currently we have a whole system set up. WE can have all kinds of future set-ups, so merely getting rid of government in the short term is NOT any kind of meaningful solution. There may be ways around all kinds of societal set ups that do NOT require government. I am NOT for government, merely for the sake of government.
2) it is possible for well intentioned people to do good through the government
It is possible for both well intended people to do good and bad intended people to do bad through government. In fact, there are a lot of good intended people involved in various aspects and various roles in government. So what is your point, here, exactly?
3) it is possible for you as an individual to influence the government in a meaningful way?
Many individuals have set goals to make certain influences in life - including influencing the direction of the government. And, sometimes these kinds of focuses have resulted in meaningful changes to government. Individuals can do these kinds of things, but it is likely rarely a product of any one individual but rather teaming up in various ways to accomplish objectives. Personally, I would rather spend my time in other ways, and I have made my various dents in life.... individually and as a part of various groups. Whether I will continue to make any dents will depend upon how I focus my energies. At the moment, I have NO current intention on making any meaningful dents in the direction of government - b/c I am planning for future travels - however, my life trajectory could change b/c of turns of events that are NOT expected.
anyway, your only argument thus far has been:
You as a citizen have a role in government, and you have a choice in where to live.
to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?
There you go... trying to minimize anything I said by asserting my ONLY argument has been... I made several points - and repeatedly asserted that I did NOT want to get into these kinds of discussions about the role of government... Weren't we talking about thefts and mt gox at some point?
You seem to be getting caught up... in some physicality.. and I would think part of this "where" question is physicality and part of it is a state of mind and acceptance of the community in which you live. Maybe you could attempt to live in nature somewhere... like in alaska.... .. anyhow, if we live in modern society we partake in the roads and the schools and the hospitals and other forms of infrastructure... Difficult to get around these things.. and also difficult to make credible claims about "I built this" when your building depends upon others and depends upon infrastructure.