Post
Topic
Board Development & Technical Discussion
Re: Thoughts on burner addresses
by
larry_vw_1955
on 12/06/2022, 03:27:15 UTC

He evidently wants to prevent pruning.  That is actively malicious.
ok you got me. i'm not a big fan of it, pruning that is. but maybe not for the reasons you think. i think every node should have to store all the blockchain data and here is why: i don't ever want to one day be trying to consult a blockchain explorer and it won't show me some of my old transactions because it pruned them.


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This is not about trap addresses, a.k.a. “burner addresses”.  The stated goal implies a desire to store arbitrary data, and intentionally to defeat the purpose for which, after much debate, Core kept OP_RETURN with output data as a less-harmful way to store arbitrary data.
Yeah but it all comes down to the fact that you can't enforce anything when something is an "opt-in" mechanism. Nice people might opt in but not so nice people don't have to and probably don't care at all the affects of their actions. Their actions probably do have affects. But they don't care about them.

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The stated goal exhibits a wanton disregard for abuse of memory and CPU resources needed by the UTXO set.  (It’s not only about disk; but a blockchain spammer does not care.)
You have to design a system to be robust against people trying to abuse it. Because, and this might be a suprise to you, but they will try. Anything they can do to disrupt it and make it nonfunctional they'll try. People have different reasons for their behavior. Some just want to cause destruction, some just want to hog up resources in a greedy way. But I think we should all agree that people act in their best self interests. And do things they thnk will benefit them even at the cost to others in some cases. I'm sure some of you guys/gals here on the forum are better than that and wouldn't try and abuse some feature of bitcoin but the world at large is another story. We can't just trust people do be nice in the real world. Bitcoin is better than that. Should be better than that.


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The stated goal is intentionally to force “Be Your Own Bank” Bitcoiners who run 24/7 online nodes at home on inexpensive hardware to serve as unpaid file hosts.
That's right. I want anyone that runs a node to store the entire blockchain for me so that I can see all of my old transactions. You can call that greedy or whatever you like but to me, that's what I want.

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The stated goal is intentionally to force poor people in poor countries who are desperate for sound money to store and process oh-so-precious-snowflake graffiti on their <$50 nodes forever and forever.  In the UTXO set.
poor people in poor countries may not even have a computer. and i would think are less likely to be running nodes than people that are more financially well off. the poor people probably use an app on their phone when it comes to bitcoin. come on now.


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This is when I start cursing.
Curse all you like but you only have the bitcoin developers to blame for any shortcomings of the bitcoin protocol as far as what it allows people to do.

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There exist altcoins that facilitate, and even encourage the storage of arbitrary data on their blockchains.  Some of them require in practice at least 256 GiB RAM (preferably 512 GiB), 32 CPU cores, terabytes of fast NVMe SSDs, and at least 1 Gbps commercial-grade Internet to run a performant node—and they still struggle to keep up with the flood of data (https://github.com/solana-labs/solana/issues/21604).  Go to them and pay their fees, if you want to store arbitrary data; if your data are so precious that you fancy forcing low-resource Bitcoin nodes never to prune it, then surely, you must be willing to pay for it.
Well we got a bit off track but burner addresses are I would assume, to your way of thinking, an abuse of the bitcoin network. And to an extent, I would agree. But again, we only have bitcoin devs to blame for allowing something to be possible if they really do frown upon it. Now where I think you go wrong though is in assuming I or anyone wants to pay to store data. I'm well aware of services like filecoin but I don't think its a very good deal. It's only temporary storage. I am not willing to pay forever to store data. So you're wrong.

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To be extra-helpful, I hereby offer my consultant services at a rate of $1,000/hour to anyone who needs assistance spamming the hell out of storing his precious-snowflake data on the Solana blockchain; my rate is subject to change without notice, as the dollar continues to inflate into utter worthlessness.
How about unlimited lifetime storage for $1000? Can you offer me that?