Most hardware wallets do indeed have a secure element, except for some of the DIY ones. There might be some exceptions, but I can recall which ones at the moment. Just having a secure element doesn't automatically mean that the seed or keys cannot be extracted.
That's what I'm saying, that any wallet with a secure element has the potential for the private keys to be grabbed by a malicious update (which I consider Ledger's Recovery update to be) or by other means known only to smarty-pants peeps like yourself.
I'm saying that I'm not likely to trust any HW wallet that has a secure element that can possibly be tapped into by the devs or anyone else, and all of the best-known HW wallets
do have one. That's why I said it's game over for me and storing crypto on any device. I've come to the realization that they're not really necessary (for me at least).
Be careful when reading anything on any social media site, including this one. Anywhere you go you're likely to run into people talking out of their ass for merit, karma, likes, or just shits and giggles.
Oh come now, DireWolfM14! I wasn't hatched out of Satan's hellspawn yesterday, you know. I was around when reddit got started, and I even remember all the really fucked up chat on AOL way back when they were trying to create a walled garden around the internet that you had to pay to access.
On a related note, what good is karma on reddit? Does it make you a big swinging reddick on that joke of a website or is there actually a benefit to having a lot of it? Honestly, I don't even understand how it's earned in the first place. I couldn't stand reddit from the start.