Re: [CFNP] Mixin Safe - Decentralized Bitcoin Custody Solutions | Review Campaign
Bitcointalk username: TryNinja
I went through this without reading any other review or even doing too much research about the product so I could have a truly first impression. First thing is that going directly to the "Get Started" page without at least checking the "Technology" page was a nightmare and I was completely lost. I had no idea what exactly was an "Owner Wallet" or "Members Wallet", or even what the Mornin Key or the Mixin Messenger app were for. The following text will be my first impressions finding out what the heck is Mixin Safe:
What I would do is rename the "Technology" page to "How it works" or at least add a warning before the "Get Started" page indicating that one should probably read how the product works before (obviously, but I can usually learn things on-the-fly and this was a bit too much). I tried setting up everything before reading that page and I had more questions than answers:
"Do I need both Mornin Key and Mixin Messenger apps?".
"Which one will actually hold my 1/3 key? And for what do I need the other one?".
I was under the impression that the Mornin Key was my wallet for the owner key (1/3) and the Mixin Messenger was the wallet for my trusted counterparty (2/3).
Of course I later found out that the Mornin Key (owner) will hold the first 1/3 key and the second 1/3 key will actually be composed of as many users as I want through the Mixin Messenger app. "Oh, now it makes sense". Still, I wish this was better explained on that screen.
Even better, also add a small explanation on each step so people understand the basic concepts. On the first step: "Select the wallet that will control your owner's private key responsible for 1/3 of the vault"; Second step: "Your friends or trusted ones will be responsible for the second key through the mixin messenger app", etc... I think it would improve the user experience if there is a direct explanation about both apps and what they are needed for.
Some stuff from the FAQ should probably also be added next its related step itself. For example, on the "Set Emergency Contact" step, there is no explanation on what is that for (and not everybody will read the FAQ).
Now to the process itself...
First thing is that I tried doing everything on my phone as I'm traveling far away from home and I have no computer/laptop with me. I could NOT do that as I need to scan a QR code from the login page (with Mixin Messenger) and it's just not possible to scan a QR from a phone from the phone itself (I had both the apps and page open on the same phone). Maybe add an option so the user can paste his session/code directly (I noticed the QR points to some kind of unique UUID). A few days later I found a PC on a hotel I'm staying and here we are!
Logged in with my phone, went to "Safes", created a new safe... oh, so here is where they ask for my owner wallet (Mornin Key), cool! Scanned the QR with the Mornin Key app, created a new key for my sick-vault and clicked next.
Now to add the Mixin Messenger members responsible for the second 1/3 key! First thing I disliked is that you need a phone number to create an account at the Mixin Messenger (why not allow email-only registrations?). But well, at least I got a local sim on my trip I can use as a "throwaway"...
Anyways... I remembered of a service that allows me to rent a phone number, so I reinstalled the app on my phone and created a new account to test with 2 members (me and a fake one). Added him in a 2/2 vault, paid the $2 (loved how many coins you accept and how quick the payment is processed) and when redirected back the page wouldn't let me proceed because I still needed to upgrade my plan. Waited a bit and it just moved on. Signed the vault creation approval with my owner wallet (Mornin Key) and it's done! Now time to send some coins...
Sent just a little bit since I was scared I would lose access to the second signer (the one I used a SMS rent service for). 1 confirmation later and I could see the balance on the page.
Went to the New Transaction option and tried sending everything to a new address. Cool thing that I received a Mixin Messenger notification for every step (first the deposit and now the transaction approval request). Now this is where something odd happened. I scanned the approval QR code with the app and a bunch of random "receivers" showed up on the transaction. "EOS Mapping", " Calculator", "Mornin", "Mixin Logs", and a symbol I can't type. Who were those? And I was apparently sending them 0 safeBTC (what the heck is this?). Anyways, I accepted it (because why not?) and it seems like everything worked out. Now to the second signer...
I try to login to the second signer again and the SMS rent service logged me out. Got logged in again and the number was gone (
). I spent some time thinking what I would do now that I couldn't login to the second signer. "Is my $$ gone?", well at least now we know why it's important to add an emergency contact and make sure you have access to your account. Still, I couldn't stop wondering how things would be different if I could have used an email address to register the account. Some more thinking and I found out you can actually reactivate an old number by paying a $3 fee, so this is what I did and it worked!
And now all I had to do was sign a last time with my Mornin Key (owner wallet). Boom, transaction sent! Interestingly enough, looks like I didn't get any fee deducted from the amount sent (do you guys cover that?).
The product reminds me of the Gnosis vault multisig (now called Safe.global?), that even Vitalik Butterin uses to safeguard his ETH: https://safe.global
Great to see this kind of service on Bitcoin's native chain (no sidechain with solidity-like contracts). I would definitely use it if I had 7-8 digits worth of BTC (assuming I could check everything is bullet proof and 100% legit). Less than that I honestly don't think I would pay $100/year, but that's me. After understanding the entire process and what each party needs to do (and with which app), it becomes quite simple. Still, I think the UI and UX when you start (before you login) could be more straightforward and more self explanatory as it takes a bit of time to get familiarized with the process. The dashboard UI itself is great and I had no problems with that.
Here is a screnshoot of me approving the tx with the almost-lost second signer, in a Windows 7 computer that I found in my hotel.
I went through this without reading any other review or even doing too much research about the product so I could have a truly first impression. First thing is that going directly to the "Get Started" page without at least checking the "Technology" page was a nightmare and I was completely lost. I had no idea what exactly was an "Owner Wallet" or "Members Wallet", or even what the Mornin Key or the Mixin Messenger app were for. The following text will be my first impressions finding out what the heck is Mixin Safe:
What I would do is rename the "Technology" page to "How it works" or at least add a warning before the "Get Started" page indicating that one should probably read how the product works before (obviously, but I can usually learn things on-the-fly and this was a bit too much). I tried setting up everything before reading that page and I had more questions than answers:
"Do I need both Mornin Key and Mixin Messenger apps?".
"Which one will actually hold my 1/3 key? And for what do I need the other one?".
I was under the impression that the Mornin Key was my wallet for the owner key (1/3) and the Mixin Messenger was the wallet for my trusted counterparty (2/3).
Of course I later found out that the Mornin Key (owner) will hold the first 1/3 key and the second 1/3 key will actually be composed of as many users as I want through the Mixin Messenger app. "Oh, now it makes sense". Still, I wish this was better explained on that screen.
Even better, also add a small explanation on each step so people understand the basic concepts. On the first step: "Select the wallet that will control your owner's private key responsible for 1/3 of the vault"; Second step: "Your friends or trusted ones will be responsible for the second key through the mixin messenger app", etc... I think it would improve the user experience if there is a direct explanation about both apps and what they are needed for.
Some stuff from the FAQ should probably also be added next its related step itself. For example, on the "Set Emergency Contact" step, there is no explanation on what is that for (and not everybody will read the FAQ).
Now to the process itself...
First thing is that I tried doing everything on my phone as I'm traveling far away from home and I have no computer/laptop with me. I could NOT do that as I need to scan a QR code from the login page (with Mixin Messenger) and it's just not possible to scan a QR from a phone from the phone itself (I had both the apps and page open on the same phone). Maybe add an option so the user can paste his session/code directly (I noticed the QR points to some kind of unique UUID). A few days later I found a PC on a hotel I'm staying and here we are!
Logged in with my phone, went to "Safes", created a new safe... oh, so here is where they ask for my owner wallet (Mornin Key), cool! Scanned the QR with the Mornin Key app, created a new key for my sick-vault and clicked next.
Now to add the Mixin Messenger members responsible for the second 1/3 key! First thing I disliked is that you need a phone number to create an account at the Mixin Messenger (why not allow email-only registrations?). But well, at least I got a local sim on my trip I can use as a "throwaway"...
Anyways... I remembered of a service that allows me to rent a phone number, so I reinstalled the app on my phone and created a new account to test with 2 members (me and a fake one). Added him in a 2/2 vault, paid the $2 (loved how many coins you accept and how quick the payment is processed) and when redirected back the page wouldn't let me proceed because I still needed to upgrade my plan. Waited a bit and it just moved on. Signed the vault creation approval with my owner wallet (Mornin Key) and it's done! Now time to send some coins...
Sent just a little bit since I was scared I would lose access to the second signer (the one I used a SMS rent service for). 1 confirmation later and I could see the balance on the page.
Went to the New Transaction option and tried sending everything to a new address. Cool thing that I received a Mixin Messenger notification for every step (first the deposit and now the transaction approval request). Now this is where something odd happened. I scanned the approval QR code with the app and a bunch of random "receivers" showed up on the transaction. "EOS Mapping", " Calculator", "Mornin", "Mixin Logs", and a symbol I can't type. Who were those? And I was apparently sending them 0 safeBTC (what the heck is this?). Anyways, I accepted it (because why not?) and it seems like everything worked out. Now to the second signer...
I try to login to the second signer again and the SMS rent service logged me out. Got logged in again and the number was gone (
). I spent some time thinking what I would do now that I couldn't login to the second signer. "Is my $$ gone?", well at least now we know why it's important to add an emergency contact and make sure you have access to your account. Still, I couldn't stop wondering how things would be different if I could have used an email address to register the account. Some more thinking and I found out you can actually reactivate an old number by paying a $3 fee, so this is what I did and it worked!And now all I had to do was sign a last time with my Mornin Key (owner wallet). Boom, transaction sent! Interestingly enough, looks like I didn't get any fee deducted from the amount sent (do you guys cover that?).
The product reminds me of the Gnosis vault multisig (now called Safe.global?), that even Vitalik Butterin uses to safeguard his ETH: https://safe.global
Great to see this kind of service on Bitcoin's native chain (no sidechain with solidity-like contracts). I would definitely use it if I had 7-8 digits worth of BTC (assuming I could check everything is bullet proof and 100% legit). Less than that I honestly don't think I would pay $100/year, but that's me. After understanding the entire process and what each party needs to do (and with which app), it becomes quite simple. Still, I think the UI and UX when you start (before you login) could be more straightforward and more self explanatory as it takes a bit of time to get familiarized with the process. The dashboard UI itself is great and I had no problems with that.
Here is a screnshoot of me approving the tx with the almost-lost second signer, in a Windows 7 computer that I found in my hotel.