Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

plications to potentially lock us out of our coins, too..

Quote from: Gachapin on December 24, 2024, 01:43:45 PM

Quote from: vapourminer on December 22, 2024, 01:37:08 PM

just to pile on, these are ones ive owned
used Trezor One since they came out - no probs (but hardware itself can be compromised if someone has physical access to it and the equipment)
use Trezor T since they came out - no probs
used Ledger - FUCK NO nothing but risk here. stay away

afaik, that's not true anymore. It depends all on the lengths of your PIN

If a bad person (who knows something or knows someone who knows something), they can get you private keys (or your seed words) in a matter of 15 minutes (or something like that), so they can get anything on your non-passphrase wallet, and your pin doesn't do anything. But they cannot get you passphrase wallets unless they are able to guess them or brute-force them.

yeah, but we talked about the attack vector of physical access to the device.. (with regard to secure elements)

A passphrase should always be used, secure element or not

I understand that the passphrase provides an extra layer of security, yet it seems that the passphrase is way more justified with a non-secure element device. I have not heard about the seed phrase being extracted from secure element kinds of devices, whether Trezor or otherwise... yet I also don't claim to be a technical guru or to follow security vulnerabilities in details if it is not coming out in some kind of more generally release kind of way or being mentioned in one of the forum threads.

PIN protects the device.
Passphrase protects the seed.
In that order.

Of course you can use the passphrase for protecting the device while having a weak PIN.

But why weaken the security? And you also open up the possibility that someone can move your coins if he has the passphrase and gets hold of your device (because it's protected only by a weak PIN)