You seem to be setting up a framework that is presuming too many preparation requirements and/or needs to learn and/or put matters into place prior to getting started, since getting started is one of the most important things to help any newbie no coiner to better focus on what it is that he needs to learn and how he needs to prepare, even if the getting started part of the equation ONLY starts with an initial investment of $10.. There are a whole hell of a lot of people in the world (even the poorest of the poor) who would be able to put together $10 for an initial investment amount into dee cornz.


Presumptively you meant to say "stressless" rather than saying stressful, and at the same time, I am not sure if there should be any goal of having good, stable and stressless.. apart from figuring out ways to get started investing time, energy and value into bitcoin as soon as possible, even if the value component is ONLY a very small amount of value, such as starting with $10.


That is a pretty vague requirement that you are asserting to be necessary prior to getting started..  I think as far as budget goes, the ONLY thing that you need is to determine if you have $10 that you could throw away, like if you were buying an ice cream cone or going on a date (paying for the services of a hooker) or buying some cigarettes or buying some junk food or going to the bar to drink some alcohol or renting a car for a day (rather than taking public transportation) to go on a day trip and to have some fun.  I have mentioned seemingly discretionary kinds of things that might cost $10 or more that you (or any extremely poor person) might decide to consume and you are never getting the value back on those hypothetical items.. so if you are capable of spending $10 on any of those things, then you are capable of putting $10 into bitcoin as a starting point.  Sure, if you are going to put more value into bitcoin, then each time that you put additional value into bitcoin, you have to determine that you have discretionary income.. so even if you might not need to have a flow of discretionary income (it is not mandatory to have a flow of income), there still is some value to make sure that any of us would be spending from our discretionary income when we buy bitcoin rather than using money that we actually need for expenses, so sure in that sense, if you were meaning to say that having a good investment budget to proclaim that you need to have discretionary income, then I would agree with you if that was what you were trying to say; however, you described the idea of having a good investment budget so vaguely that what you said could be misinterpreted in terms of how difficult for someone to be able to achieve such requirement as you vaguely referred to it.


Surely, it can be helpful in regards to having more than one source of income, but it is not required prior to getting started in bitcoin.  Of course, the better that anyone is in regards to increasing his income and lessening his expenses, then the more discretionary income that he has for investing, which would be a good thing.

Sometimes a person can obtain one very good income stream that pays way better than having a bunch of petty and  mediocre income streams, and so people with lucrative jobs don't necessarily need to have back up income streams.. but they may need to have emergency funds in case their lucrative job ends up having issues in the future.


Sure can be helpful, but not needed to accomplish in advance of getting started with bitcoin investing.


This is pretty vague.  Sure each of us wants to put systems in place that cause us to not be emotional about our investment into bitcoin, yet there can be periods in which there is a lot of stress and fear, including maybe even more fear and pressure in the earliest times of first building up the bitcoin investment, and surely the more that we are able to put our various systems in place, the systems should help to lessen our fear, pressure and emotions, but it still make time to eliminate the various concerns and/or emotions that any of us might have while we are building our bitcoin investment, putting our various cashflow management systems in place and perhaps learning and tweaking our systems from time to time.


You are repeating yourself.  How is this different from your item 2?  You seem to be creating unnecessary requirements.  I do understand and appreciate that guys might develop various categories of funds that they have that they earmark for bitcoin versus other kinds of expenses that they might have, and they might even have some flexibility in some kinds of funds and less flexibility in other kinds of funds, and I can also appreciate that if a guy has various cashflow management systems in place that largely cover all his expenses, then if he is able to find and achieve cashflow from some additional source, then in those circumstances, he might be able to label that additional income as extra money that can be put into bitcoin.. yet at the same time, I hardly see that all guys would conclude that getting an extra income stream that they would consider to be for buying bitcoin would necessarily be the best use of their time and energies.. even though sure it could work for some guys, it might not work for other guys, so in that sense it is not a prerequisite for investing into bitcoin and it might not even be a good or productive path for all guys to try to achieve such extra income source, even if the might be able to achieve such.


This is vague too, yet I likely largely agree with the idea of trying to stay focused on prioritizing investing into bitcoin, even though surely there sometimes could be other things that might take higher priority over investing into bitcoin, such as sometimes young people may well need to figure out ways to increase their skills, their employment opportunties and/or their income generating opportunities, and so there may be times in which they would be in a better position to invest time, energies and monetary value into some of the various kinds of seemingly non-bitcoin related building.  We cannot necessarily make blanket assertions regarding how folks need to make their priorities. Also, there can be some young guys who might have to spend money to find and secure a life partner, and sure sometimes it might seem like a waste of time, energy and/or monetary value, but windows of opportunity can sometimes close when they are not properly pursued.. and of course, there are other kinds of examples that might be used to describe that balancing needs to happen in regards to how to balance various matters, and sometimes it might not be exactly clear about the extent to which time, energy and monetary value might end  up being compromised based on various relationships and/or activities that we have, and surely sometimes we are going to make bad judgements in regards to how we are prioritizing some of our relationships and/or activities.... and so in that sense, I would agree to your assertion that our investment into bitcoin needs to likely retain a certain level of priority even if we might have other kinds of competing high priority kinds of activities and/or relationships that we have to also balance in regards to how we spend our time, energy and/or monetary value.


Sure.  I don't disagree, yet what you are saying here goes back to balance, and some kinds of expensive things may well be necessary and/or prudent from time to time.


This may be true, even though you also might need to have some successorship (inheritance) kinds of plans, but there still could be ways in which you are still careful in regards to with whom you share any details of your investment into bitcoin and also that if you were to write out clear instructions or to have some other system in place, you might not even need to tell anyone about inheritance and/or successorship kinds of issues in advance.


For sure, you are correct that each of us should want to try to make sure that we are not creating incentives for others to shorten our lives or to act against our interest in ways that might shorten our lives or impede our healthiness.


There are likely ways in which guys can determine that they have accumulated enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin, so it could be problematic to presume that bitcoin investors would not be able to reach such status of over accumulation.

Let's say for example, a late-30s guy had an income of about $30k to $40k for the last 15 years or so and he had been accumulating bitcoin fairly aggressively at $250 per week for 9 years, so that would mean that he may well would have invested about $117k into bitcoin and he would have accumulated more than 35 BTC. Let's say that he considers that he would like to quit his job and he considers that he would need to have at least double of his latest income $40k in order to feel comfortable to quit his job.

This same guy considers how many bitcoin he likely needs to sustain around an $80k income per year, and he goes to a sustainable withdrawal calculator and he sees that he likely ONLY needs right around 18.34 BTC right now in order to perpetually sustain such $80k per year withdrawal rate.  He appreciates that the sustainable withdrawal calculator could be wrong, yet at the same time he knows that he has nearly 2x the minimum requirement.  I think that this guy should be able to reasonably conclude that he has reached a status of over accumulation of BTC, and he likely does not need any more BTC in order to sustainably withdraw for the rest of his life (perpetually) at $80k per year, which happens to be twice the amount of his current latest income in which he had been working.

Maybe you want to argue that he still needs to accumulate BTC, and I would ask "why"?  He reached way the fuck more than he needs or wants to live, so why does he need to continue to buy BTC or try to get more value when he likely has way more than 2x the amount that he needs, and it could even be argued that he has more than 4x the amount that he needs, since his historical income has not gone above $40k, and that if he is withdrawing anywhere between $40k to $80k and perhaps even more per year, his BTC value is likely growing way faster than the rate upon which he would be withdrawing it.. so why would he need (or want) to continue to accumulate bitcoin?  for the mere sake of it?  for some kind of a status or competition play?  I see no reason that anyone should necessarily increase their goals of getting even richer and even under the current wealth status he has way more than he needs even if he were to double his current standard of living.


I agree with your point about getting started right away, yet I don't agree with any kind of an assertion that any person who gets started is going to put some kind of an automated system in place, since getting started is ONLY the first step.. even though getting started is a very important step that facilitates possibilities of future success, getting started by itself is not enough and it could still take years and years for a person who had gotten started to put systems in place that actually start to compound on themselves and show value and meaningful progress.  In other words, not everyone is starting from a very good place, and bitcoin is not going to resolve the problems of people who are not able to make sure that they are building solid systems of good habits, strong cashflow practices and other kinds of supplemental practices besides just buying bitcoin regularly, persistently, consistently, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively.


None of your ideas are bad mvdheuvel1983, and they may well even be good.

I think that one of EclipseXcrypto's objections to your outline (and mine too) is that you seem to be implying that the various organizational matters need to be in place prior to getting started investing into bitcoin, which truly is not true, and people can start investing in bitcoin from all kinds of places (even chaotic places) and figure out some of the matters as they go, and surely one of the main requisites of starting is just having $10 that can be put in to get started, and yeah, there are people with really fucked up finances, fucked up lives, bad organizational skills and even gambling kinds of personalities, and surely those people are likely not coming to bitcoin with the right kind of starting point, yet even if they have a lot of chaos their lives they can get started and hopefully build systems to fix their various flaws and even their bad ways of thinking.. but they don't need to have all of their various flaws fixed prior to buying their first $10 in bitcoin...

and in fact, buying their first $10 in bitcoin may well motivate them to fix their other flaws... and if they end up not fixing their flaws and getting reckt, that is on them, but the fact that some folks might end up recking themselves, still does not mean that they should not get started.... and it is their responsibility to work out various details including various flaws that they might have.... and surely they are going to have even a worse time if they cannot figure out that they have certain flaws.. and I am not going to blanketedly proclaim that their situation is not sufficiently organized or flaw free or perfect in order to get started.  You can say it, but I think that both EclipseXcrypto and I are suggesting that you are requiring too much.

By the way, I would suggest that no one should be trading bitcoin, but instead should be coming to bitcoin as an investment rather than a trade; however, at the same time, when people first come to bitcoin, they might not even be able to figure out what is the difference between investing and trading, yet I personally would still suggest to them to get started as soon as possible.  I would suggest to them that I consider bitcoin to be an investment for 4-10 years of longer, and not a trade, but surely they can do whatever they like and take responsibility for their actions including if they wish to consider bitcoin as a trade rather than an investment, that is their choice. I would hope that they change their perspective, and surely I am not going to suggest that they don't get started with their initial $10 or whatever it might be, and maybe they want to start out with $1k or some other amount that seems a bit high, out of their budget and even money that they need for their expenses, and sure if I know about those kinds of circumstances, then I would recommend against it, yet I still cannot back off of my general recommendation to get started as soon as possible and if the person misinterprets and comes into bitcoin with a lot of screwed up expectations, I am not going to take responsibility about that since I am presuming that people have basic organizational skills and that they are able to sufficiently and adequately protect their own interests, and if they are not capable, I am not going to presume that, even though I know that there are people who have defective personalities, character flaws and inabilities to control their emotions and/or their finances. Each person needs to figure out these kinds of basics but it is not going to stop me from suggesting one of the main and most important things with bitcoin is getting started.  If you got shit you have to work out, that is on you to identify whether or not you have $10 in order to get started.  If you estimate wrongly then that is on you.


Several of the ideas in the investopedia article are decently good, yet they are not prerequisites towards getting started investing in bitcoin.

Another thing is that they are using the term crypto in a vague way on purpose, and they likely either don't know the difference between bitcoin and crypto or they are purposefully misleading.  I see no reason to give them some kind of benefit of the doubt and presume that they really mean bitcoin when they use the term crypto, when that is not the case.


You are speaking a bit of gobble-dee-gook here.  Are you suggesting that we need to prioritize our investment into bitcoin and just work towards building our bitcoin investment in a long-term kind of a way?  or were you wanting to say something else?


So many times you (Ricardo11) are posting your repetitious idea about bitcoin being guaranteed to be successful, and suggesting that the longer that anyone invests into BTC then the more likely the bitcoin investment will be successful - which truly is not the case.  It seems that any of us should be able to express ourselves without proclaiming over and over that bitcoin is guaranteed to be successful...  even if bitcoin has one of the best (if not the best) investment theses out of all possible investments.. it still is not guaranteed to play out, even over a long time line (such as 2-3 cycles or more).

It is true what you say that the longer that you invest, the more capital that you are likely to put into the investment and overtime small amounts invested will end up adding up to seemingly much larger amounts that build up over time.  So for sure it is true that if we keep investing, even if we invest small amounts, over a long period of time, then our small investments will add up to being a large amount invested, and perhaps adding up to values that we would have never had been able to save up absent our ongoing, persistent, consistent and perhaps even aggressively putting that value into bitcoin.

Another thing that you glaze over is a presumption that bitcoin is going to perform in a positive direction, especially in the long term, and sure you are not completely wrong to presume that there are good odds that bitcoin will continue to have a price trajectory that goes up, yet of course it is not guaranteed to go up.. so we can surely describe any investment that we make into bitcoin as having some dependency that the value of bitcoin goes up. and perhaps that our oldest invested amounts might have had time to compound upon themselves too.. ..so it seems better to refer to a presumption that the investment is going to go up over time, rather than describing it as a guarantee.


For sure, it becomes quite difficult to build up amounts when the amounts are very small, yet people have to figure out how to deal with their circumstances, and if they are ONLY able to build up $5 per week into each,  then it surely may well end up taking them a very long time to even reach an investment level (and an emergency fund level) that is 3 months of their expenses.. .and so they can ONLY do what they can do, and surely when the numbers are so low it starts to make sense to try to figure out if income can be increased and/or expenses can be reduced, yet there may well be times in which people are stretched as far as they are able to based on their own circumstances.  

Not everyone is in a position to being able to invest into bitcoin, since there is a requirement to have discretionary income.. and some people are stretched so thin that they really are not able to invest into bitcoin.


There is no prerequisite to know your destination prior to starting your bitcoin investment journey.  You are talking like a trader if you think that you need to specifically establish conditions for your bitcoin investment prior to getting started.  In fact,  you might start your bitcoin investment in such a way to just want to try to learn more about bitcoin and start out with $10 and to work out your various goals as you go, whether you start to invest $10 per week or maybe you invest $10 and start to study and learn other aspects about bitcoin and about your own cashflow management situation, including learning about the level of your discretionary income that you might want to invest into bitcoin, and sure you might also try to sort out a few of your 9 individual factors while you are still in your earliest stages of buying bitcoin, whether you had invested beyond the initial $10 or not.


For sure, the longer that we are in bitcoin, the more likely we can put strong cash flow management systems and practices into place and we can also choose the level of our bitcoin investment aggressiveness based on our cashflow management, various back up funds we have put into place and other ways of accounting for our particular financial and psychological circumstances, and so actions are very important in terms of attempting to reach strong balances, even if a person practices prayer simultaneously towards having various strong practices in place, as you mentioned.  It seems that we strive to learn how to put strong practices in place, to learn from our practices and likely mistakes that we might end up making at various points along the way, and to improve our practices whenever we believe it to be prudent, and surely we might include some prayer and even thankfulness in there too.