Guys, I've been silent for a long time, but you guys have been arguing for over 20 pages, and the person who understands is the one who avoids arguing in general. You've wasted 20 pages without any benefit, and both teams are right, and each has its justifications, theories, evidence, and orientations. For those who argue, there are moderators, and if there was something worth arguing about, you would have found responses. I hope we focus on what the thread was created for. Thank you for all your efforts, and my regards.