Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

My personal experience lies in comparing my dealings with both e-gold and MtGox. In both cases I got out with no loss of funds before the collapse. The difference is how I managed to get out. In the case of e-gold I had to convert my gold into CAD and take delivery of the CAD. In the case of MTGox I had to convert my CAD to BTC and take delivery of my BTC. In both cases I ended up keeping the "delivered" form of money, CAD for e-gold, BTC for MTGox.

Yeah, just like I got my bitcoin out of bitcoin-24.com when they collapsed.
People who were in FIAT are still waiting for their money. (after more than a year).

The crucial point here is that gold is far worse than fiat in this context. So for ease of taking delivery we have

Best: Bitcoin and other crypto-currecnies
Middle: Fiat currencies USD, CAD, EUR etc.
Worst: Precious metals, gold, silver etc.

There is a reason why fiat was invented in the first place.

This is one of the reasons I expect both a very strong bull market in Bitcoin combined with a brutal bear market in gold and other precious metals. So we could see BTC / USD in the 100,000 to 1 million range or higher and 1 oz of gold dropping to 500 USD or even below 100 USD. In effect a major transfer of wealth from gold to Bitcoin, kind of like the move from horse powered transportation to motor transportation 110 years ago.

I agree that bitcoin wins out in this sense.

I have read though, in Rickards The Death of Money, that the gameplan of the big power blocs seems to be to drive down the price of PM's. One benefit of this is that the China's & Russia's can cheaply increase their gold holdings. Once it gets to 2.7 - 3 % of GDP, then, barring any kind of market crisis, the stage is set for the IMF to introduce SDR's which will include gold in the basket of currencies it is based on. This would significantly increase the fiat price of gold. Implicit to this is that the USD will cede its status as reserve currency.

In this case it might be gold up, bitcoin up?

This assumes that gold would be included in the SDR. The SDR is defined in terms of fiat currencies and does not include a gold component. In any case I just do not see the "big power blocks" or "gold is a barbarous relic" school of thought suddenly embracing gold. The real demand for gold has been from the Austrian / Libertarian or "real money" school of thought not the Keynesian / central banker side. The trouble for gold is that Austrian / Libertarian or "real money" capital could very easily flee en mass to Bitcoin. In addition there is the indication that gold is due for a big correction, without even considering Bitcoin. If one takes a look at the inflation adjusted price of gold over the last 100 years http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Gold/Gold_inflation_chart.htm one sees a double top developing. If one puts all of this together one has the perfect storm for a brutal bear market in precious metals.

As for industrial uses of gold such as circuit boards yes it exists, but it is very small compared to the monetary value of gold. I lived through the gold bear market of 1980 - 2000, which coincided with the rise of personal computer and the Internet. Still gold went from over 800 USD per ounce to close to 200 USD per once in 20 years, and this is in terms of the depreciating USD. The next gold bear could be worse.

I see it as very unlikely that the bear market in gold will continue for much longer. The bull market was reversed only through blatant manipulation with the help of derivatives. Part of the Quantitative Easing money created is used to short gold. Gold as the ultimate physical store of value will not lose its status and will rise in fiat terms when the fiat ponzi starts crashing - yet most likely much less than BTC.
Real money thinking will move to Bitcoin, but Keynesian thinking will flee en masse to real money thinking when their views dissolve.
Most of the world still sees gold as the ultimate representation of wealth. A big proportion of the people will not shift so easily from a physical store of value conception to a digital store of value conception. People like gold, especially more so outside the western world.
Gold can easily do x10 (1000%) within the next 10 years - depending on the geopolitical and monetary unfolding.
Silver can do x50
Bitcoin can do x1000 (100,000%)