Quote from: DieJohnny on July 29, 2014, 04:38:09 AM

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 03:42:18 AM

Quote from: DieJohnny on July 29, 2014, 03:31:57 AM

Quote from: SilenceDogreat on July 28, 2014, 04:44:17 AM

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But the main flaws of your argument are in your understanding of how stocks are valued...
Bitcoin is a speculative investment. People typically buy bitcoin because they expect it to be worth more at t, where t is some time in the future.
Or they invest because they believe that the value of bitcoin is less volatile (or has greater upside) than their traditional currency.

The way you portray the stock market, you assume those are all speculative investments. Perhaps you've heard the phrase "do your homework" in regards to stocks?
There are methods to estimate the intrinsic value of a stock - the discounted cash flow formula is standard.
You can also use Price to Earnings ratio, PEG, etc. etc. to compare company A to company B (typically within the same sector).
Amazon's price is ~800-900X earnings......so then you would say, "see, it's magic!". But no, it isn't.
P/E is just one way to understand the price relative to similar entities. Using the DCF formula, you would find Net Present Value...
for a firm with extremely high growth, and a dominant position (+ high barriers to entry) - like Amazon - the NPV calculation includes more years.
While there is certainly some guesswork involved, leading to differences in estimates and recommendations by analysts, this isn't just pure speculation.
So, intrinsic value calculations will change based on concrete numbers from the quarterly income statements/balance sheets of these companies.
Investors act accordingly and the price changes. There's also movements based on missing or exceeding consensus estimates, guidance from the firm, etc.

Then there are the obvious differences between bitcoin and stock that have already been mentioned.
You might have a better case comparing some characteristics of penny stocks to bitcoin...
but your fundamental understanding of stock valuation needs some work.

Well at least you are contemplating reality. But the point you are missing is that fundamentals are arbitrary and invented. One company's valuation has nothing to do with another. The Beta for an individual stock is nothing more than consensus mind control. Amazon itself is a perfect example, where profits have been eliminated from its fundamentals as its growth potential and global domination trumps any short term profitability.

In reality, ALL fundamentals are arbitrary and fiction for any stock, as is your effective "ownership." Embrace them at your peril and do so only to help you sleep at night. "Fundamentals" are nothing more than mass justification and sales fodder for putting your hard earned money in ownership of digital fiction.

Bitcoin is a limited ownership in an economic entity that is everyone refuses to label as one thing or another, primarily because of stupidity. So figure out what "Fundamentals" the whales use to drive Bitcoin price, get rich.

Yep. Bitcoin is not some magical bubble machine driven by mass hysteria and panic purchases. It is ownership of an asset whose price is driven by basic things that can be measured. Those basic things are more like a stock's basic things than anything else.

OK please give us w bitcoins fundamentals then. Explain why its valued at $590

And try to break it down as line items w prices. Not abstractions

What and do all the thinking for you?

No because you can't do it. Its price derived purely from speculation