Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Monero XMR ... Why do people fall for the shills and bullshit?
by
Anotheranonlol
on 22/08/2014, 15:20:28 UTC
See, now that's a well written criticism. Worlds apart from OP's faggotry that included no arguments whatsoever.

Anyone care to comment on it and write a rebuttal? Fluffypony, maybe?

(disclosure: Monero owner writing)

I commented on that post elsewhere (Anotheranonlol has been cut-and-pasting that everywhere, so I had to dig around to find my reply, and turns out it wasn't even a reply to that comment specifically).

Basically, the difference between the two in terms of usability is incremental. We did not build the 0.8.8 release statically as there were too many boost issues on various platforms, and we needed people to be able to dynamically switch one boost version out for another. The next tagged release will have boost linked in statically. With regards to the GUI, there are already a number of GUIs for Monero. They are all just as usable as the Boolberry one, which makes them all equally useless to anyone outside of the very small circle of technically proficient people on this forum. They're not intuitive or natural for a non-cryptocurrency native.

In other words, you have to split target audiences in two. Firstly, there's a relatively group of people (no more than a few tens of thousands) who know or use this forum (check box one), are interested in cryptographically sound software (check box two), don't buy into gimmicky "features" (check box three), and have a degree of technical proficiency (check box four). Secondly, there's the rest of the planet (check box one), who may have a peripheral interest now or in the future in using digital currency (check box two), and who may run malware-ridden systems or be unable to use a computer without the simplicity of an Apple product (check box three). In-between these two groups is a slither - a very tiny third audience - who know or use this forum (check box one), are very opinionated and express their opinion loudly (check box two), and have a technical proficiency below what one would expect (check box three - and that's an observation and not meant to be an insult).

Monero in its current form (command-line, optional GUIs you may have to compile yourself) is perfectly useable by the first audience, as is Boolberry. In the future Monero hopes to be perfectly useable by the second audience, but right now both Monero and Boolberry are completely useless for that target audience. That tiny slither - the third audience - are not catered for by Monero unless they are willing to ask and learn, whereas Boolberry appears to "work out the box" for them.

It is not worth our while expending effort and doing something half measure to incrementally improve usability for that third slither. We will, as a natural order of ongoing development, make things easier for that group, but most likely not to the level Boolberry has. Instead we choose to focus on improving the stability and usefulness for our current audience (the first group), whilst also pursuing a long-term goal of making Monero useable by the second group. Between now and when we reach that long-term goal, those that are in the third slither will either disregard Monero until it accomplishes that long-term goal and is useable by them, or they will apply their minds, ask questions, and move into the first group.

The difference between the two right now in terms of usability is not incremental, but visible and apparent. That's what's real. The monero GUI mockup is sexy. Looks like a lot of thought went into it. Good job there. But For now that's what it is, a mockup. BBR gui is proven here today. The user experience is hardly the opposite, it just works.  There's this constant narrative in any monero supporters posts that they are doing things properly, other coins have done a botch job.

I wager any idiot here on this forum could work there way through downloading and sending a transaction with the BBR wallet. It's a relatively one click download and install. I find it much easier than bitcoin-qt or even electrum. I encourage anyone to try the two side by side and document the process. Using BBR was like a sigh of relief in comparison to XMR. - Sure a dumb mac user can setup a VM to try out XMR. or type in a sequence of commands and 'apply their mind' - Why would they want or need to do that though.

Maybe BBR can add a little privacy slider and cleanup a few things but it's a really simple process even today. BBR dev can forget about it for a while now and focus on underlying things.

The same cannot be said for Monero in it's current state We are not arguing about future things here, as monero could come out with an earth shatteringly user friendly GUI that enables grandma to send tokens to uncle bob encoded in ring signatures just as easily as ducknote or quazarcoin or boolberry could. The point is they haven't.

You say " They're not intuitive or natural for a non-cryptocurrency native." I'm sorry but who is your target demographic? We are talking about an alpha level altcoin, launched by anonymous group of individuals with questionable motives, promoted on subforum of a forum and on obscure exchange trollboxes. It's not permeating into the mainstream anytime soon, regardless of how shiny the buttons on the GUI are.

You split it into 2 broad groups, people that have a level of technical proficiency, and people that don't. I don't think it would be a stretch to imagine there are people on this forum who have no clue how to manually install boost on OSX, then setup and sync the monero daemon, then type in the command to create their wallet, and so forth, but who manage just fine to run precompiled xxxcoin-QT wallets who will ask 'how do I copy/paste from cmd prompt? when it comes to monero.

why this is continually used as a subtle attack against competing coins. The notion that you aren't in a rush to make things easy for the 3rd group and instead focusing on doing business in the back, so BBR has screwed up because it's already managed to make things perfectly easy for the 3rd group is something that keeps being repeated.  Used as a con when it's not one.  . We are getting the supporters parroting that same thing ad infinitum, implying they are the only group which puts any though into anything.

It's great monero is doing things methodologically, (no sarcasm), the whole GUI thing isn't that important really. It's a small pool of participants right now, and it is true you could take a little time to learn.  It's more the reaction to it. If XMR had GUI and BBR didn't, my god, you would not hear the end of it. When the opposite is true, complete nonchalence. No one seems to cares what other coins are adding because XMR can do it in the future so it wins by default is what seems to be happening now