Re: Beastlymac - scammed me for 3.1 btc - gridseeds group buy
Yip I agree completely with that as well.
I asked Beastly and he said he sent OP a message in March ( I think it was) advising his items were ready for be sent out. He is still in the process of finding the PM to show us. If he does manage to find the PM my opinion will change....
Not friends with OP or the brother, never even spoken to them before... I just didn't like how they were being treated, based on the evidence that had been presented, so far - Evidence like screenshots, PMs etc etc.. as opposed to both parties just telling there side of the story...
I don't think ANYONE is a scammer but I strongly disagree with some business practices that has been shown.
So you can't find a message that says his order was not sent for processing on the 7th that is because it was.
I thought this issue would've been over by now
But this is the reason why this all came about in the first place: lack of communication. You're right, there wasn't a message that the order wasn't sent for processing... There also wasn't a message stating that the order was sent for processing either, but there should have been... Well, it was, but months too late.
Look at this from the buyer's viewpoint... His name wasn't on the list of orders so he wouldn't have known. I understand you have a separate non public list and he wasn't on the public list because he didn't send his shipping address. But Fact is, he requested the refund only days after the order was placed. The rules stated no refunds after order was sent to the manufacturer, but here again, there's no way he would've known that his order was included in that shipment. You didn't advise him of that until this thread. And the only thing we have is your word that his order was in fact included in that bunch. That's something we'd probably never know for sure. But....
Even if his order was included, it shouldn't have taken you several months to tell him that. Had you advised him early on, he probably would've tried to sell the pre-order as others did. But he was robbed of that option because he was led to believe he was getting a refund; why request the verification (which he sent), if it wouldn't be used to refund him? Even after you found his order, you neglected to tell him that he wasn't entitled to a refund.
My point is, the buyer should've been told from the jump that he wasn't going to be refunded. As I stated before... Given the tone of the initial communication and the fact that my name wasn't on the public list (how would I know you maintain a private list), I'd also be under the impression that I'm getting a refund. The rule is no refund after order is placed - I get that.
What I don't get is why the buyer is absorbing all of this loss on his own when he's technically not at fault? IF he were told this months ago, his loss wouldn't be so drastic. You yourself admitted that lack of communication on your part is partially to blame... That said, this entire incident could've been avoided if it were communicated to the buyer the status of his order - but it wasn't. Now OP is left to settle for a lousy .0something refund when he could've gotten something near the couple of BTC he originally made the purchase for. That isn't fair.
I asked Beastly and he said he sent OP a message in March ( I think it was) advising his items were ready for be sent out. He is still in the process of finding the PM to show us. If he does manage to find the PM my opinion will change....
Not friends with OP or the brother, never even spoken to them before... I just didn't like how they were being treated, based on the evidence that had been presented, so far - Evidence like screenshots, PMs etc etc.. as opposed to both parties just telling there side of the story...
I don't think ANYONE is a scammer but I strongly disagree with some business practices that has been shown.
So you can't find a message that says his order was not sent for processing on the 7th that is because it was.
I thought this issue would've been over by now
But this is the reason why this all came about in the first place: lack of communication. You're right, there wasn't a message that the order wasn't sent for processing... There also wasn't a message stating that the order was sent for processing either, but there should have been... Well, it was, but months too late. Look at this from the buyer's viewpoint... His name wasn't on the list of orders so he wouldn't have known. I understand you have a separate non public list and he wasn't on the public list because he didn't send his shipping address. But Fact is, he requested the refund only days after the order was placed. The rules stated no refunds after order was sent to the manufacturer, but here again, there's no way he would've known that his order was included in that shipment. You didn't advise him of that until this thread. And the only thing we have is your word that his order was in fact included in that bunch. That's something we'd probably never know for sure. But....
Even if his order was included, it shouldn't have taken you several months to tell him that. Had you advised him early on, he probably would've tried to sell the pre-order as others did. But he was robbed of that option because he was led to believe he was getting a refund; why request the verification (which he sent), if it wouldn't be used to refund him? Even after you found his order, you neglected to tell him that he wasn't entitled to a refund.
My point is, the buyer should've been told from the jump that he wasn't going to be refunded. As I stated before... Given the tone of the initial communication and the fact that my name wasn't on the public list (how would I know you maintain a private list), I'd also be under the impression that I'm getting a refund. The rule is no refund after order is placed - I get that.
What I don't get is why the buyer is absorbing all of this loss on his own when he's technically not at fault? IF he were told this months ago, his loss wouldn't be so drastic. You yourself admitted that lack of communication on your part is partially to blame... That said, this entire incident could've been avoided if it were communicated to the buyer the status of his order - but it wasn't. Now OP is left to settle for a lousy .0something refund when he could've gotten something near the couple of BTC he originally made the purchase for. That isn't fair.
I did not sent him a message in March saying his items where ready for shipping I think that may have been a miss understanding sorry if i gave that impression. The issues have stemmed from no postage details being provided when the order was made. The way this has effected things has meant that in future when conducting and form of sales it will require more information. Although the instructions in the group buy stated that people where required to send a pm with TX id and postage details. A few members of the community provided postage details and payment for postage at a later date and that worked out fine for others. The thread did have updates and posts that if curious miner had read and followed he would have had a better understanding of what happened. People also asked in the thread and via pm about selling orders and i said this could be facilitated it was done via the thread and people made offers in the thread so curios miner could have done that but he decided not to either by choice or by not staying up to date with what was happening. I see that the majority of the misunderstanding came about that i was offering a refund for the single chip devices (that has been given to him) and he misinterpreted it to be that i was offering a refund for the whole order. The request for verification was done for all members who received a refund for the single chip devices and that was the reason that i asked him for account confirmation and a signed message at the time.
PM log:
I have highlighted some important parts
This is the interaction with bbxx
hi.
i know the 3.1 btc not refunded issue. why are you holding refund to curiousminer if he have resigned from buying and havent posted you shipping address?
you think that if he is noob he will forget and you will go away with his money?
please ressolve this issue or i will be forced to open scam accusations thread against you and warn people from buying from you.
is 3.1 btc really worth Trade with extreme caution mark near your nick?
thanks.
i know the 3.1 btc not refunded issue. why are you holding refund to curiousminer if he have resigned from buying and havent posted you shipping address?
you think that if he is noob he will forget and you will go away with his money?
please ressolve this issue or i will be forced to open scam accusations thread against you and warn people from buying from you.
is 3.1 btc really worth Trade with extreme caution mark near your nick?
thanks.
I am trying to resolve the issue with him. I am trying to confirm that his account has not been compromised and make sure that he is who he says he is. How are you involved in this issue?
i am his brother and i can confirm this.
also i can admit that his account was not hacked and all what he wrote was true.
thanks.
How can you prove that you're his brother?
you can check my address
1BBXX1ZW9b7tA5Ccw7xA3FyF3mPnzZPTVH
we had many transfers between each other
i can also paste some screenshoots about all this mess from gmail or whatever you want.
feel free to check out blockchain with acvivity between our adresses
thanks.
I will look into it tomorrow as i am about to get some sleep (11PM here) i will get back to you when i have had a chance to look through it. Please send through as much information as you can and i will look into it. I am just trying to make sure that someone doesn't run off with his btc. Currently he had a change in IP addresses that makes it look a little iffy so i am just trying to get enough information so that it can be proved it is him.
he had change of ip address due to travelling, it is vacation time.
please tell me what you need exacty perform fair refund
feel free to use as much time as you want to be sure, but please do not hold that next weeks. i hope it will be solved tommorow or at wendsday.
thanks
As much information as you can provide showing proof of account ownership. Also according to the groupbuy rules as stated at the beginning of the groupbuy for the 5 chip miners of some where purchased they can not be refunded and can only be shipped out. "All orders paid for and submitted to the shipping company can NOT be refunded." As stated in the forum thread that can be found here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=436031.0
The single chip USB miners that never shipped from the manufacturer can be refunded.
Please let me know his response.
hi
he will answer for sure but i dont know when becouse he is traveling.
so you dont want to refund becouse you have sent his shipping info to shipping company? wtf.
you had his money, you had more money you should have, you havent reported that, you havent told him to give shipping address, you havent sent him miners and now you are doing everything to keep his money?
is it normal your business practic? he was nit on the list of group buy!!!
please refund his money, this looks like a theft.
i am adding gandalfG as recipient, G, would you advice how to ressolve that?
thanks.
The terms of the groupbuy where and still are once the persons order has been paid for to the manufacturer then the order can not be refunded. The USB can as the manufacturer refunded that order because they could not fulfill it. He was not on there list because he did not send me the information after his order or post in the thread thus was not added to the list. The 5x5 chips units can be shipped when address is recieved.
Regards, Beastlymac
Hi.
I will sum up what happened.
you got 3.1 btc from curiousminer before closing group buy, he havent provide shipping address.
few days later still before closing groupbuy he asked to full refund due to held goods customs fear
you have not refunded that time, saying that you dont know what and when he has ordered.
when he told you all info you said that he has been hacked and he has to prove his address possesion, ip logs, etc.
this battle lasted few months until now.
now when you are sure that he is not hacked you found another excuse to not refund stolen money. you are trying to scam him by sending worthless goods instead, lying that you have ordered goods from him (funny is that that you send pm what he has exactly ordered week ago)
this is pathetic.
me and my brother curiousminer will have to take actions to get full refund.
firstly describe situation with evidence at scam accusations thread.
second make trip to australia, pay visit to local police department, start legal court case and ressolve this issue by law.
this can cost you thousands of dollars and many months in jail.
we are honest polish guys, not poor, we have been together at australia it is not end of the world. we want to ressolve this issue due to our general attitude to scammers and thieves.
i am adding scam hunter escrow.ms as another recipient, maybe he will help us to finish this case faster.
feel free to answer as reply to all.
thanks
Dear, bbxx and curiousminer
Im not sure if you're understanding the situation.
I hate to be the burden of bad news. But you paid for an item that i then forward the funds on to the manufacturer meaning that one i don't have the money you paid anymore. This was made VERY clear in the thread where it says and i quote "All orders paid for and submitted to the shipping company can NOT be refunded." meaning that your brothers funds where paid to the manufacturer as was everyone else's for the 5 chip units. His units are ready to ship when he provides his postage details. I am trying my best here to resolve the situation. In regards to his order of the USD dual miner units i will refund him as was also stated in the group buy thread if you read through that over 30+btc in relation to the USB units was refunded because the manufacturer was not able to follow through on those units. The terms where stated clearly and i am not scamming you in anyway. You paid for a product and that is what you are getting. Also i have included GandalfG back in this message since he has already been roped into this shambles but escrow.ms and thymos are very busy people and thymos doesn't get involved in things like this. The only reason that your brothers units did not ship MONTH'S ago are because he did not provide his shipping details. You are welcome to come and visit me in Australia if you feel like. As you can see by the rules of the group buy that where stated at the beginning that orders that have been submitted to the shipper/manufacturer can not be refunded. It was very clear.
Regards, Beastlymac
why you havent refunded when he asked to do so?
it was before closing a group buy.
please such tricks will not work. all evidence is at curiousminer side.
can you post me your name, phone and actuall address?
i need personal data to forward to police agent i am in contact.
thanks.
The order was already submitted to the manufacturer before he asked for a refund. I am sorry but i don't give personal information out via the internet.
i dont care you have sent order or not. (it was after he asked about refund). This is a clear liehe has not ordered items, only paid as reservation people where not required to pay when reserving so another liewchich he asked to withdraw and you didnt do that. he did not receive any goods, and you havent asked about his shipping information. case is clear. you should refund his money.
if you cant do that now becouse you have dont have assets please tell me when you can do so. i can agree for extension period with partial weekly or monthly payments.
it is not a problem to find your address i can ask for group buy participants. you will not go away with this. there is a lot of legal ways to ressolve this. law is at our side.
thanks.
to escrow.ms,
sorry for disturbing you but i need help you to ressolve this.