What you call a "lame rhetorical point" is what many people call an example of an open, curious mind. I realize that forums are not good places for people to exchange ideas and try to learn. Most, it seems, assume that this is a debate, and one "earns points" by vanquishing an opponent in discursive combat. People become more entrenched in their own thinking, and gain the support of the echo chamber from whence they came. This is not my scene. Have fun.