Re: GAW Zen Hashlet PayCoin unofficial uncensored discussion. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly, tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

Now here's the thing they're not forcing a monopoly but pretty much guaranteeing them the first place use, say Paycoin is a hit, they will have competition come along to be payment processors and third party uses, their challenge will be that GAW has been a step ahead, it just really ends up on mattering if its a hit or not if there will be a true monopoly (which of course would be bad). If Paycoin is a hit you will have the big Bitcoin companies able to come in and quickly roll out a Paycoin solution that would try and challenge GAW but i don't think they would be able to overtake them for the Starting advantage gaw has.

but that argument just puts it straight back to my point, it's a mastercoin clone. any company can come along and invest lots of cash and do exactly the same for their own rewards program. what GAW are doing isn't rocket science, moreover, the sheer amount of investment that they are putting into this, is just foolhardy and the only way that they are going to recoup that investment, in my eyes, is at the cost of those who buy into it. Sure - GAW are going to make money out of this. I just fail to see how the little guy will make a profit from it along-with. I am just one of a majority of people who have no interest in having paycoin in a paycoin wallet and for that reason, it is doomed to failure.

It all depends, it may end up costing them and their users but it may have an edge and the investment in advertising and getting new users may payoff and have them making a large profit and having the early people psyched, it's a gamble right now and no one has any true numbers on the odds.

well, it's good that we can disagree amicably and it's been a pleasure debating this with you. i will wish you the best of luck with it, and hope for the sake of good folks like yourself, that it does work out and you get a return on that investment. iI will say as an afterthought.. if only he had channeled that advertising revenue into Bitcoin or helped the evolution of Mastercoin and the already (half)established platforms which is carries, perhaps Josh-of-GAW may have been hailed as some sort of Bitcoin messiah, instead of being seen as trying to be a thorn in its side. With all that advertising, BTC could have gone up past $1000 in the blink of an eye. I suppose ; that's a discussion for another thread! best wishes mate.