Still available? I sent PM but did not get a reply...

What about if you truly believe in GOD'S LAW OF BALANCE then you will never lust after dangerous sex and thus avoid "unwanted" pregnancy and disease as well as many emotional discomforts which may be impacting you upon a soul level.

If the only relevant criticism of these results is that the memory of the patient was contaminated, I think that further studies of the large amount of strong anecdotal cases reveals this criticism to be in error. To be sure, no one can defend their own memory from such criticism, so to state that the memory is wrong *somehow* is unscientific. Why not say that the medical workers had contaminated memories? Neither explanation provides a mechanism and this kind of hand waving argument is unsatisfactory, it also contradicts point 52 on the near-death site where a scientific study suggests that these memories are more real than normal memories.

The case In the AWARE study, along with other such cases, does suggest that the brain does not generate consciousness. This type of case was well documented in the AWARE results, so the conclusion is scientifically documented, this kind of case proves that NDE cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone, and this is a key point that is made on the near-death page which lists the 52 points of evidence.

That is because you are a rational atheist and a humanist, as described in the chapter called "What is Atheism" in Atheism and Secularity, Vol. 1.

I think you have had some time to do your research, so please answer me this:
Why should we view the results of the AWARE study with skepticism?

Is it not a documented case of perception and memory formation during brain death?

And what about the other people who have had NDEs involving veridical perception while they were brain dead?

Why the sarcasm? No ability to make your point directly? Let's get educated; shall we?

Read about domesticated plants, and domesticated man; also, cheetahs, a very strange breed of "cat"... or is it a "dog"; maybe a "catdog"??
http://www.whale.to/b/pye1.html

Why should we have false idols? Man has his OWN free will. I found for you the truth about cats in ancient Egypt:

I have pointed out that atheism is a lie, that all atheists/humanists oppose the scientific explanation known as the survival hypothesis as though their very lives depended upon it;
you cannot address the evidence supporting that hypothesis so instead you create false idol pretenses to distract and deny the truth? I did not get your point with the cats, so enough sarcasm my educated friend; it is time for you to please educate ME, but do not rush to exit this discussion like most of the other atheists in this thread; that makes me sad; I would like to be educated!

See GOD in yourself first--you are closer to GOD than you realize; JESUS SAID THAT GOD'S KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU, not "here, God's Kingdom is here in the flesh in me, Jesus" or "there", for God's Kingdom does NOT come with observation (of history or events). He is telling you to join him on a higher level of consciousness.

Those who preach the ONENESS OF GOD (like the ancient Egyptians) and the brotherhood/sisterhood of humanity, These ones are blessed and true "prophets", the Peacemakers--whose guidance you must seek in your spiritual quest. Never the person--always the WORD!

"You only need to see this"... is that not what the false religions teach?

"Just look here, but not anywhere else".

If I want to lose weight, I can simply close my mouth. The animals cannot DO the same because they don't have free will. What makes Man different from the animals is that man has a spark of GOD dwelling within him. You Know What intervened to give man the body and genes that he currently has so that man may evolve as a vessel housing that spark of GOD and realize the universal brotherhood of humankind. It's my educated conclusion (opinion) that I came to after thinking about the evidence that I have posted in this thread, including the Golden Rule which states that we are all ONE. The animals never realize that life is sacred because they don't KNOW anything, man is not primarily an animal, but a creature of reason so that is the part of man that must evolve.

Actually, if you take a good look at domesticated plants, you will see that it is evidence against evolution as usually promoted, so how can we be animals when it is obvious that there was intervention?
http://www.whale.to/b/pye1.html

I do not preach any religion, rather I ask atheists to use reason in evaluating the mountains of evidence for the survival hypothesis. It is too bad that all atheists/humanists oppose this scientific explanation as though their very lives depended upon it.

It is impossible for an atheist to believe in life after death or rebirth because these ideas are opposed to humanist dogma and all atheists are humanists since what else could they be?. Since there is so much evidence of life after death, the burden of proof has shifted to the skeptics, they fail to offer a serious scientific explanation to justify humanism.

Researchers van Lommel and French wrote in New Scientist that if there was a documented case of perception and memory formation during brain death then this would suggest that the brain does not generate consciousness. Such a case was provided in the later AWARE study and other cases also have good documentation; there are many other lines of evidence that are very hard to explain without the survival hypothesis, even though it is a nonphysical explanation, it is the only one that explains the hard data and mountains of anecdotal evidence. It has been proven by rigorous science and the same can be said for the Orch OR theory of quantum consciousness.

So Buddhism is not a religion, and yet all Buddhists believe in rebirth; the so-called "Buddhist atheists" are not genuine precisely because they reject rebirth (they are humanists). No one who has become enlightened by the Buddhist path(s) has ever come back to tell us that this is the only existence available to us.

Why don't you try to debunk the AWARE study by proposing an alternative explanation for why a patient who has a flat EEG AND no blood flow is able to create a true memory of a perception that happened before the restoration of blood flow?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg13349586#msg13349586

If you seek what is true and right, then why would you just pick one ideology? Why not pick out the truth that is presented from ALL sources? Then you can have a collection of truths that make sense to you.
To be rational means that you have the ability to intelligently evaluate new ideas when presented. You have to intelligently seek out the truth and discern what is true with patience and openness. Nearly every human culture and religion declare the importance of the golden rule, so in that sense they are all right, they are ALL giving you the truth, this means that we are all ONE.

Most network marketers do not succeed, but if you have the right product/company, marketing system, and compensation plan then success is possible but it will depend on your talent, effort, resources, etc.

Actually, that explanation is far from likely; it is actually impossible because of the simple fact that the patient cannot "wake up" or hallucinate until after blood flow is restored AND EEG activity returns. Therefore, if a patient who has a flat EEG AND no blood flow has a memory of a perception that happened before the restoration of blood flow, that perception is medically unexplainable.
Specifically, your explanation contradicts the evidence in the AWARE study where the patient was brain dead, had a flat EEG, perceived a sound, and was subsequently shocked; while being shocked, he still had a flat EEG and remembered feeling no pain, which is another indication that he was brain dead. Oxygen from CPR is not sufficient to wake up the patient, and this is a medical fact; you need to have blood flow to be conscious after brain death. His memory of veridical perception during brain death is medically impossible, and there are more documented cases of this type listed in the 52 points of evidence that I linked to.

I offered my proof; you can forget about BADecker; I have him on ignore. Take some time to educate yourself and do some thinking;
you have to think about the evidence because it contradicts the traditional humanist assumptions.

My proof is posted here, but it requires that you understand the implications of the evidence of NDE during brain death.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg13320231#msg13320231

I am posting here to ask the OP if he has read this essay that I recommended and if not then why not?

Your argument is invalid because NDE cannot be explained by brain chemistry alone:

You need a functioning brain with blood flow and electrical firing to have hallucinations and/or perceptions. None of that is present during brain death. So how are the perceptions explained?
In the AWARE study, the patient had true perceptions during brain death that were later confirmed by witnesses.


One researcher calls these "actual death experiences" because it is impossible to hallucinate, have perceptions, memory formation, etc. under such circumstances.

Open minded? Read my latest posts, read the 52 points of evidence and try to understand Orch OR. Since your argument is invalid, you need to devote yourself to more study in order to correct your understanding.

Good question; I will give you my answer:

I studied all religious and inspired texts that were available to me; the first "religious" book I ever read was Tao Te Ching and it was a helpful touchstone for me in late adolescence when I dropped the religion of my parents (Christianity) and founded the atheist/secular club at my university. The timeless wisdom of Tao led me to a deep appreciation of the mystery of life and the universe; eventually, I found the truth that I was seeking, but it was a lot of hard work to remove the last layers of cultural brainwashing and like I said: I studied all texts that were available to me, so I came to my own conclusions only after I knew what each faith actually taught; Tao helped by teaching me that patience and openness are virtues; my atheist friends did not really talk about virtue so I distanced myself from them. As a science student, I was very interested in the origin of life and the universe; this was one of the mysteries which drew me into my spiritual studies; it led me to examine the nature of reality by reading all of the authors and texts which attempted to answer that question so that I could find and discern the truth for myself, without any outside mental conditioning.

A materialistic explanation for Near Death Experience is non-existent. These experiences are known to be medically unexplainable. If you are trying to think about how stuff works, why don't you think about my reply to you, including the 52 points of evidence and evidence from quantum biology; why do you choose instead to ignore it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg13328132#msg13328132


Why accept humanism? Humanism teaches that there is no life after death, but the truth is that we can shape what happens to us in the afterlife by our beliefs and decisions in this life.


What about the facts of NDE? How can science explain them? I have not heard a rational argument about this from you and the other atheists in this thread, including OP.