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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][NXT AE] Top Distribution (topDISTR)
by
4420866
on 31/07/2014, 04:12:54 UTC
nxt: 5488307804925320710
thanks
good luck
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN] Roxcoin | X11 | 4.5m | PoW/PoS | NO Premine | POW Ended Smoothly!
by
4420866
on 01/07/2014, 18:37:30 UTC
seems interesting, hope dev can update something later. Smiley
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][NTX]First Anon Coin based NXT|Big Bounties| Trading on Bter now.
by
4420866
on 01/07/2014, 18:35:01 UTC
All coin listed on this table has growed fast, maybe NTX is the next one!


http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/888367355/TB2kxyVXVXXXXXzXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.jpg
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:40:06 UTC
First they lough at you, then they fight against and finally you'll win!

Each time a new "anon" coin pops up there is new fud against DRK from "investors" of shitcoins
who missed the DRK train.

What they still don't know, they have only missed the first x10 .. x15 of DRK.
If they would do some research about dark instead of spending time and money in shit like XC
and Veri they could be part of the next step of DRK.

Fundamentals could be seen over weeks on a price around 0.00125 ... 0.00145.
DRK is one of the best distributet coins ever. You could read over weeks and again again DRK is only
a pump and dump and people were acting like a pump and dump and a lot of coins changed from hand to hand. as the past has shown it isn't pump and dump, it is DRK and DRK will change the still small crypto world!

People start thinking whats going on here.

BTC core dev is fighting against a shitcoin. Why is he spending time on shit DRK ?

Belive me, he knows why and you should also. He maybe has more DRK than we alltogether.

Evan Duffield is rich! 1,700,000 DRK at today price is around 30,000 BTC or $20,000,000.
I heard XC and VRC(VeriCoin) is the next big THANG.


are you kidding???

Get on the boat guys!


will dark be pumped higher???
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:34:52 UTC
First they lough at you, then they fight against and finally you'll win!

Each time a new "anon" coin pops up there is new fud against DRK from "investors" of shitcoins
who missed the DRK train.

What they still don't know, they have only missed the first x10 .. x15 of DRK.
If they would do some research about dark instead of spending time and money in shit like XC
and Veri they could be part of the next step of DRK.

Fundamentals could be seen over weeks on a price around 0.00125 ... 0.00145.
DRK is one of the best distributet coins ever. You could read over weeks and again again DRK is only
a pump and dump and people were acting like a pump and dump and a lot of coins changed from hand to hand. as the past has shown it isn't pump and dump, it is DRK and DRK will change the still small crypto world!

People start thinking whats going on here.

BTC core dev is fighting against a shitcoin. Why is he spending time on shit DRK ?

Belive me, he knows why and you should also. He maybe has more DRK than we alltogether.

Evan Duffield is rich! 1,700,000 DRK at today price is around 30,000 BTC or $20,000,000.
I heard XC and VRC(VeriCoin) is the next big THANG.


are you kidding???
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:33:01 UTC
How could you justify this. There is 1.7 million coins premined, at an average price of 0.001 btc, that would be 1700 btc. If he sells half of it, it will be 850 btc.
You are just talking bare lies that 1700 btc or 850 btc is bare zero money.

1.7mn DRKs had a cost of 42.5 BTC in january.

You are applying retroactive logic (current valuation to the circumstances of the past) of the kind "oh those idiots who bought the 10.000 BTC pizza, now would be millionaires". Yeah, well, nobody knew. Same with DRK... 100k DRKs = 2.5 BTC. In some cases even 2 BTC.

Quote
Also, you are talking the PoW/PoS coins such as Cinni have very short PoW time as "instantmined", however, do you understand what is instantmined? Instantmine is defined as at the early stage of PoW stage of a coin, the mined coins accounts for a large amount of the total PoW stage. DO NOT LINK your instantmined DRK with us, ok?

All pow/pos coins are instamined since future miners cannot mine them at all. Contrast this to DRK where 2 were instamined and another 20 could be mined later. Which is fairer to late miners? The one where you have to buy it from the bagholders (no mining possible), or the one that you can actually mine it too? It's hypocritical to argue about fairness to late miners when you are supporting any pow/pos 100% instamined hybrid.

Quote
Now it is very clear, DRK is instantmined by a single person before others could use the qt and miner. Because the developer hold 40% of coins, he is trying to do whatever he want.

Most miners use linux.

1.Now I can see you are trying to argue without standing point. Did you see 1.75 million DRK sold in January?
Only a idiot will believe he sold all in january.
Suppose even if he sold all in january, is 42 btc bare no money? In January BTC worth more than 700 usd.

2. Instantmine is that one or few person mine a ton of coin in the beginning of release, mostly because of low difficulty. Do you see in BC, Cinni or other POS coins case, one or few person mine a 40% of PoW coins?
In PoS coins, the developer make a ANN that everyone can mine from beginning, do you call this instantmine?

3. I cannot agree with you that most miners use linux, because according to what I know, majority of miners use windows.
Look at the discussion of cgminer, sgminer, etc, you will see most forum members are discussing how to use windows based miners.

i use windows, and i do believe dark dev team may also buy more cheap dark coin when dark coin hit a market, because they know they will pump it later.??
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:30:27 UTC
I don't care about DRK one way or the other, but this thread is quickly leaving me with the impression gmaxwell is just another coin developer who feels his particular coin is the One True Coin, and so he slams all others.  




Looking at your previous post, I think you are lying by saying "you dont care about DRK one way or the other".
You are a DRK holder, arent you?


I have what, 2 previous post in a DRK thread, both of which indicate I think the price is going to go down and continue to do so.

How you get from that to me being a DRK holder must require some interesting gymnastics.

I don't think DRK is a scam, but I do think it's been overhyped.  I also think the dev is likely in over his head, knows it, and that's why he won't open the source yet.

In the end, I don't much care if DRK lives or dies. If it fails, some later iteration won't.

I like to see diversity in altcoins. I think it's a good thing to have a lot of chaos on the fringes. Some of that will bubble up to be good ideas.  It doesn't matter if 99% of them are copycoins or poorly implemented. New ideas are good for the ecosystem.  Even hype of previous ideas is a good thing, it promotes the concepts to wider audiences.

Gmaxwell has made it very plain he does not like altcoins. He's stated it directly.  I disagree with him on this point, and in fact I think it's quite dangerous to centralize on one coin with one set of developers.



that's make sense. Wink
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:23:44 UTC
I don't care about DRK one way or the other, but this thread is quickly leaving me with the impression gmaxwell is just another coin developer who feels his particular coin is the One True Coin, and so he slams all others.  




Looking at your previous post, I think you are lying by saying "you dont care about DRK one way or the other".
You are a DRK holder, arent you?

The whole crypto coin world should think seriously about the current situation of DRK, it has too much negative effects in the shadows, and now it is being revealed by the community.

Those who defend DRK here have a lot postings in DRK community, you know what that means.

To ozziecoin, make sure your points stand when you try to argue, otherwise people do not trust you.

also a big dark holder for some profit?
and develop a shit coin named  Ozziecoin???

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB22vw3XFXXXXbvXpXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=578881.0
[ANN] [0.9.1] Ozziecoin - Australia's first widely distributed digital coin
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:18:41 UTC
How could you justify this. There is 1.7 million coins premined, at an average price of 0.001 btc, that would be 1700 btc. If he sells half of it, it will be 850 btc.
You are just talking bare lies that 1700 btc or 850 btc is bare zero money.

1.7mn DRKs had a cost of 42.5 BTC in january.

You are applying retroactive logic (current valuation to the circumstances of the past) of the kind "oh those idiots who bought the 10.000 BTC pizza, now would be millionaires". Yeah, well, nobody knew. Same with DRK... 100k DRKs = 2.5 BTC. In some cases even 2 BTC.

Quote
Also, you are talking the PoW/PoS coins such as Cinni have very short PoW time as "instantmined", however, do you understand what is instantmined? Instantmine is defined as at the early stage of PoW stage of a coin, the mined coins accounts for a large amount of the total PoW stage. DO NOT LINK your instantmined DRK with us, ok?

All pow/pos coins are instamined since future miners cannot mine them at all. Contrast this to DRK where 2 were instamined and another 20 could be mined later. Which is fairer to late miners? The one where you have to buy it from the bagholders (no mining possible), or the one that you can actually mine it too? It's hypocritical to argue about fairness to late miners when you are supporting any pow/pos 100% instamined hybrid.

Quote
Now it is very clear, DRK is instantmined by a single person before others could use the qt and miner. Because the developer hold 40% of coins, he is trying to do whatever he want.

Most miners use linux.

During the first 15 hours, between

block 1  http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm and

block 4000 http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?00000000fc0ee07e47609bae8d5fe5d774193c71d518c56dfe8faaf7d780a03f.htm  



approximately 1.75m darkcoins were generated.
The result? Darkcoin is currently at 80,000 blocks, but there’s only 4.3m DRK out there. Five months later, the 1.75m generated during those first 4200 blocks still represents 40% of all DRK in existence.

Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | ASIC Resistant
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 08:16:56 UTC
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XC][OFFICIAL] >> Mandatory Wallet Update (01/06) - X11/PoS/Anon
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:54:59 UTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words  from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.
Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?
I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

Quote
As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.
You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

Quote
Why would you attack Darkcoin?
Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

Quote
Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.
This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

Quote
It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin.  Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.
Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

Quote
than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.
What are you talking about here?  Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

Quote
As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol.  I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent".  Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.
I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all— pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

Quote
Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?
Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

Quote
And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.
All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff— but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one— at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them.  Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.



Grin

maybe you should read this article:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.0

Here is a article:

http://cryptolife.net/darkcoin-the-next-big-thing-or-just-another-pump-and-dump/

DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?

Released just shy of 5 months ago, darkcoin has quickly ascended the ranks of the cryptocurrency world, securing the #4 spot on coinmarketcap. Boasting what appears to be an impressive suite of anonymity features, darkcoin has successfully marketed itself as the rare breed of substantive altcoin. Is it, though? Peer beyond the surface, and you’ll quickly discover that darkcoin is not dark in name only.

Darksend Drama


Overhyped and misunderstood, darksend is touted as the killer feature that’ll send darkcoin’s price to the moon. What is darksend? In short, a protocol that groups transactions in such a way that the source and destination of the coins are muddied. As previously mentioned http://cryptolife.net/breakdown-anonymizing-cryptocurrencies/, darksend is not a comprehensive anonymity solution. At best, it provides pseudonymity. In spite of that, the people promoting this coin still use misleading buzzwords like anonymous payments and hailing the feature as something totally unique and groundbreaking, and perhaps the greatest thing since bitcoin itself. The reality of it all couldn’t be farther from that.

Darksend itself is not even a unique feature, nor was it created by Evan Duffield, Darkcoin’s lead developer. Darksend is merely an implementation of the CoinJoin specification https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0  originally created by Greg Maxwell, one of the bitcoin core developers. Still, Duffield does his best to avoid giving any credit to Maxwell. Take a look through his posts, you’ll not see a mention of CoinJoin or Maxwell.

To make matters worse, darksend is closed source. Take a moment to reflect upon how ridiculous it is to take open source software (bitcoin), layer an open source specification on top of it (coinjoin), and then keep the result (darksend) closed source. It goes against the fundamental principles of the cryptocurrency movement, and is reflective of the motives of the developer.

Amusingly enough, Maxwell himself is on the record  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg6804719#msg6804719  stating that CoinJoin is inferior to other anonymizing protocols that are already available. Put simply, Darksend does not live up to the hype that surrounds it. It can not ensure anonymization of payments.

Darkcoin makes use of so-called ‘masternodes’ that assist with darksend transactions. Last week, a bug in the code unleashed havoc upon the network, causing it to continually fork and putting the coin into a nonfunctional state. A hardfork had to be issued to fix the issue.

Having said all that, Duffield is no idiot. He knows the limitations of darksend. But he’s not concerned about it. Why, you ask? Darksend is very good at generating hype. Hype leads to price apprecation. And who benefits from price appreciation? Coin holders, of course. Which brings me to my next point…

Huge instamine and subsidy reduction

Since I’m writing about it, it should come as no surprise that this coin has an instamine associated with it. This one went unnoticed for quite some time, but by taking a quick look at blockchain data we can see what went on. During the first 15 hours, between block 1  http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm and block 4000 http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?00000000fc0ee07e47609bae8d5fe5d774193c71d518c56dfe8faaf7d780a03f.htm   , approximately 1.75m darkcoins were generated.

Immediately after this period, Duffield claimed that there was a ‘bug’ in the block reward calculations, and issued a hardfork to address it. After this fork, the block reward quickly dwindled down to an insignificant amount. Right now, it sits at a pitiful 5 DRK. A farcry from the 500 that it used to be.

The result? Darkcoin is currently at 80,000 blocks, but there’s only 4.3m DRK out there. Five months later, the 1.75m generated during those first 4200 blocks still represents 40% of all DRK in existence.

Dark beginnings

Darkcoin was initially released as XCoin, and didn’t attract much fanfare. This is partially because it was released without a working windows client, one of the obvious marks of a scam,  http://cryptolife.net/the-anatomy-of-a-scamcoin-7-things-to-know-before-investing-in-an-altcoin/   making mining it very difficult.

Who, then, was in the best position to mine the initial 4200 blocks? None other than Duffield and his buddies. The truth of the matter is that the aforementioned block reward ‘bug’ was intentional and allowed him to mine a large number of coins for himself, in an attempt to avoid the negative stigma associated with obvious premining/instamining… and it seems to have worked.

With a current market cap of just over $50m, Duffield has no doubt profited quite handsomely off of this scam. The real question is, how many of these coins have been dumped on the market? How many are in the process of being dumped? Hard to say without deep blockchain analysis, but it’s irrelevant either way. The price of altcoins are held up largely by people’s reluctance to sell. When one person, or a group of people, control a majority of coins, this creates a situation where the price of the coin is either artificially inflated, or gets pounded into the ground. A poor investment to be sure, made even poorer when you take a look at the 30 day price history. If you think growth like this is sustainable, history would like to have a word with you.

http://img01.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i1/888367355/TB2uodDXpXXXXXFXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Conclusion

All hype and no substance, darkcoin is far from a serious contender in the altcoin world. Its suite of ‘anonymity’ features are falsely advertised, offering pseudonymity at best. At the end of the day, darkcoin offers nothing of true value over other coins. Couple this with shady release tactics, a sizable instamine, and unsustainable price increases, only a fool would dare ‘invest’ in this coin right now.



Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:43:21 UTC
If you want acknowledgement, then I'm sure they would be more than happy to acknowledge your valuable work.
No, in fact I already previously _demanded_ they stop promoting it with my name, which they were doing initially.
Quote
but it's pretty clear to me what is happening here
Yes, you came and trolled all over the CoinJoin thread in a desperate attempt to convince people of your untrue comparative claims wrt darkcoin. While I'm normally content to more or less ignore this hive of scum and villainy that is the altcoin subforum, when it spills over and interrupts discussion elsewhere, pinging my email with report-to-mod hits, it gets my attention.  So… you have my attention now. Lucky you.

keep pumping and pumping...because Dark dev team have controled most of the darkcoins now...

they can even sell them at the price 1 Drk= 1BTC.....and they will buy at this price by themself, and attract some new comer buy at that price...

 Huh
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: 【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:37:27 UTC
During the first 15 hours, between

block 1  http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm and

block 4000 http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?00000000fc0ee07e47609bae8d5fe5d774193c71d518c56dfe8faaf7d780a03f.htm  



approximately 1.75m darkcoins were generated.
The result? Darkcoin is currently at 80,000 blocks, but there’s only 4.3m DRK out there. Five months later, the 1.75m generated during those first 4200 blocks still represents 40% of all DRK in existence.
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Unmoderated XC thread
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:22:09 UTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words  from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.
Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?
I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

Quote
As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.
You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

Quote
Why would you attack Darkcoin?
Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

Quote
Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.
This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

Quote
It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin.  Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.
Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

Quote
than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.
What are you talking about here?  Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

Quote
As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol.  I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent".  Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.
I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all— pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

Quote
Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?
Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

Quote
And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.
All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff— but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one— at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them.  Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.



[/quote]
Post
Topic
Board 山寨币
Re: 强力爆料:暗黑币是假黑还是真黑??? DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:14:19 UTC

比特币核心开发人员的看法。
 Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words  from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.
Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?
I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

Quote
As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.
You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

Quote
Why would you attack Darkcoin?
Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

Quote
Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.
This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

Quote
It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin.  Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.
Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

Quote
than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.
What are you talking about here?  Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

Quote
As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol.  I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent".  Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.
I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all— pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

Quote
Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?
Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

Quote
And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.
All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff— but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one— at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them.  Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.



Post
Topic
Board 山寨币
强力爆料:暗黑币是假黑还是真黑??? DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:11:47 UTC

比特币核心开发人员的看法。
 Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words  from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.
Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?
I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

Quote
As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.
You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

Quote
Why would you attack Darkcoin?
Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

Quote
Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.
This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

Quote
It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin.  Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.
Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

Quote
than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.
What are you talking about here?  Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

Quote
As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol.  I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent".  Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.
I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all— pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

Quote
Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?
Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

Quote
And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.
All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff— but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one— at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them.  Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.


Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XC][OFFICIAL] >> Mandatory Wallet Update (01/06) - X11/PoS/Anon
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 07:07:44 UTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=641178.40
Here is some words  from a bitcoin core dev

http://img03.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i3/888367355/TB2po2SXXXXXXbWXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.
Now who is doing the pumping for his coin?
I haven't promoted anything here, except arguably the Bytecoin/etc. ones which aren't mine by any means.

Quote
As I see it coinjoin as it stands is highly centralised and subject to being co-opted.
You're asserting this but you haven't justified it. I can't counter an assertion because I don't even know what you're saying is centeralized or how you believe it could be co-opted.

Quote
Why would you attack Darkcoin?
Because it's closed source stuff of dubious quality which appears to being deceptively marketed.

Quote
Afterall, the devs themselves have said they will make the code available soon.
This isn't how cryptosystem development works. History supports taking the position that is closed should be automatically assumed to be snake-oil if not an outright trojan until proven otherwise. It's highly suspect. Systems which are good do not need to hide their operation, not if you're going to ask other people to use it.

Quote
It seems to me you are prejudiced against Darkcoin.  Why? I cannot fathom nor am I interested.
Why do you ask why and then claim disinterest? I am prejudiced against vaporware, closed source, and pump and dump nonsense. I am prejudice against things which exploit the technical work I've done, trade on it's name (as Darkcoin did at first, until I started blasting it it), to the apparent purpose of extracting funds from people who are less technically sophisticated. Beyond the basic immorality of it, I worry that this fundraising style will remove people's willingness to support real improvements that aren't scams, since its hard for them to tell them apart.

Quote
than your 1 centralised coinmixing server.
What are you talking about here?  Nothing I've ever described involved a singular "coinmixing" server.

Quote
As for you saying that CoinJoin is inherently part of Bitcoin; how so? It is not part of the protocol.  I do not see many people use it on a day to day basis. It is not part of computer wallets. Which part of it is actually "inherent".  Why cannot Litecoin use it "inherently" tomorrow if they wanted to? I see nothing inherent about it at all.
I'm now suspecting that you've never read the CoinJoin post at all— pointing out that it was part of the protocol was the point. It's also inherently a part of Litecoin or anything else that copied the bitcoin code slavishly. It's a result of how signatures work in Bitcoin. Getting wallet interfaces and such developed for it was the motivation for the CoinJoin post, and now there has been good movement on that front.

Quote
Please, Zerocash is totally closed source right now so how would you know it is better?
Closed source? It's not actually implemented yet, but unlike "DarkCoin" they've extensively described their approach in their academic publications and subjected it to extensive peer review. I'm not a fan of the security assumptions it makes, but the privacy properties the system should achieve are basically perfect.

Quote
And bytecoin and its various forks have problems with blockchain bloat.
All cryptographically strongly-private decenteralized cryptocurrencies are going to be unprunable to some degree, which is an unfortunate scalability tradeoff— but considering that no Bitcoin implementation in production today implements pruning anyways, it's hardly a fatal one— at least in the medium term. The tradeoff here is fundamental: if you don't know what coin has been spent, you can't forget any of them.  Of course, a system could have less privacy and things forever out of the anonymity set could be forgotten but thats the tradeoff you get.


Post
Topic
Board 山寨币
Topic OP
强力爆料:暗黑币是假黑还是真黑??? DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?
by
4420866
on 06/06/2014, 06:05:12 UTC
老外发的一篇文章

看看真实的暗黑币。


Here is a article:

http://cryptolife.net/darkcoin-the-next-big-thing-or-just-another-pump-and-dump/

DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?

Released just shy of 5 months ago, darkcoin has quickly ascended the ranks of the cryptocurrency world, securing the #4 spot on coinmarketcap. Boasting what appears to be an impressive suite of anonymity features, darkcoin has successfully marketed itself as the rare breed of substantive altcoin. Is it, though? Peer beyond the surface, and you’ll quickly discover that darkcoin is not dark in name only.

Darksend Drama


Overhyped and misunderstood, darksend is touted as the killer feature that’ll send darkcoin’s price to the moon. What is darksend? In short, a protocol that groups transactions in such a way that the source and destination of the coins are muddied. As previously mentioned http://cryptolife.net/breakdown-anonymizing-cryptocurrencies/, darksend is not a comprehensive anonymity solution. At best, it provides pseudonymity. In spite of that, the people promoting this coin still use misleading buzzwords like anonymous payments and hailing the feature as something totally unique and groundbreaking, and perhaps the greatest thing since bitcoin itself. The reality of it all couldn’t be farther from that.

Darksend itself is not even a unique feature, nor was it created by Evan Duffield, Darkcoin’s lead developer. Darksend is merely an implementation of the CoinJoin specification https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0  originally created by Greg Maxwell, one of the bitcoin core developers. Still, Duffield does his best to avoid giving any credit to Maxwell. Take a look through his posts, you’ll not see a mention of CoinJoin or Maxwell.

To make matters worse, darksend is closed source. Take a moment to reflect upon how ridiculous it is to take open source software (bitcoin), layer an open source specification on top of it (coinjoin), and then keep the result (darksend) closed source. It goes against the fundamental principles of the cryptocurrency movement, and is reflective of the motives of the developer.

Amusingly enough, Maxwell himself is on the record  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg6804719#msg6804719  stating that CoinJoin is inferior to other anonymizing protocols that are already available. Put simply, Darksend does not live up to the hype that surrounds it. It can not ensure anonymization of payments.

Darkcoin makes use of so-called ‘masternodes’ that assist with darksend transactions. Last week, a bug in the code unleashed havoc upon the network, causing it to continually fork and putting the coin into a nonfunctional state. A hardfork had to be issued to fix the issue.

Having said all that, Duffield is no idiot. He knows the limitations of darksend. But he’s not concerned about it. Why, you ask? Darksend is very good at generating hype. Hype leads to price apprecation. And who benefits from price appreciation? Coin holders, of course. Which brings me to my next point…

Huge instamine and subsidy reduction

Since I’m writing about it, it should come as no surprise that this coin has an instamine associated with it. This one went unnoticed for quite some time, but by taking a quick look at blockchain data we can see what went on. During the first 15 hours, between block 1  http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm and block 4000 http://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/block.dws?00000000fc0ee07e47609bae8d5fe5d774193c71d518c56dfe8faaf7d780a03f.htm   , approximately 1.75m darkcoins were generated.

Immediately after this period, Duffield claimed that there was a ‘bug’ in the block reward calculations, and issued a hardfork to address it. After this fork, the block reward quickly dwindled down to an insignificant amount. Right now, it sits at a pitiful 5 DRK. A farcry from the 500 that it used to be.

The result? Darkcoin is currently at 80,000 blocks, but there’s only 4.3m DRK out there. Five months later, the 1.75m generated during those first 4200 blocks still represents 40% of all DRK in existence.

Dark beginnings

Darkcoin was initially released as XCoin, and didn’t attract much fanfare. This is partially because it was released without a working windows client, one of the obvious marks of a scam,  http://cryptolife.net/the-anatomy-of-a-scamcoin-7-things-to-know-before-investing-in-an-altcoin/   making mining it very difficult.

Who, then, was in the best position to mine the initial 4200 blocks? None other than Duffield and his buddies. The truth of the matter is that the aforementioned block reward ‘bug’ was intentional and allowed him to mine a large number of coins for himself, in an attempt to avoid the negative stigma associated with obvious premining/instamining… and it seems to have worked.

With a current market cap of just over $50m, Duffield has no doubt profited quite handsomely off of this scam. The real question is, how many of these coins have been dumped on the market? How many are in the process of being dumped? Hard to say without deep blockchain analysis, but it’s irrelevant either way. The price of altcoins are held up largely by people’s reluctance to sell. When one person, or a group of people, control a majority of coins, this creates a situation where the price of the coin is either artificially inflated, or gets pounded into the ground. A poor investment to be sure, made even poorer when you take a look at the 30 day price history. If you think growth like this is sustainable, history would like to have a word with you.

http://img01.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i1/888367355/TB2uodDXpXXXXXFXFXXXXXXXXXX_!!888367355.png

Conclusion

All hype and no substance, darkcoin is far from a serious contender in the altcoin world. Its suite of ‘anonymity’ features are falsely advertised, offering pseudonymity at best. At the end of the day, darkcoin offers nothing of true value over other coins. Couple this with shady release tactics, a sizable instamine, and unsustainable price increases, only a fool would dare ‘invest’ in this coin right now.


1 前15个小时 挖了175万的暗黑币,占据目前所有出币数量的40%

2 匿名就是一个画饼,借用比特币核心开心团队成员Greg Maxwell 提出的coinjoin技术来搞匿名,然后闭源。后来Greg Maxwell 说coinjoin没法实现完全的匿名。。。

3 masternode 一直分叉,分叉,分叉...

4 不知道小白还要接盘到多久。。。



Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: ★★★ MaruCoin ★★★ NEW X13 ALGO ! ★★★ MINE NOW ! [KGW+DGW] ★★★ NO IPO/PM EXCHANGE!
by
4420866
on 28/05/2014, 08:31:27 UTC
X13 Very innovative algorithms.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XC] >> Mandatory Update to new Wallet - The first POS X11 anonymous wallet
by
4420866
on 28/05/2014, 07:37:53 UTC
The price of the Assumption, is simply crazy.