Bump.

Here's the old thread on it:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Probably is more timely now to discuss.

Pretty sure this would be working with lightning also.

See also, related (original) CT discussion (lots of info, rabbithole):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085273.0
and, in Elements, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085271.0

Discuss

This wasn't really feasible before, but once Segwit activated a ray of hope came forth.  With Segwit implemented and gradually growing, and with Lightning now being examined more thoroughly, micro transactions are more of a possibility in bitcoin.

See project in my signature for details, the first phase of the project was proof of concept in the BCN GUI. The next phase will be doing the same thing in GUI settings in a bitcoin wallet (providing the option for microdonations at certain thresholds, for example), but in that latter context, the precondition has always been (1) Segwit and (2) a working Lightning implementation.

Cheers

(Note:  The 'first implementation' on the abis.io page is a dead link due to reorg of the BCN website, please scroll down to where it has a link described as 'bytecoin (BCN) ~ discussion' for more coverage of how this was implemented there for the proof of concept; it is certainly hoped that this will not only be able to be done in BCN (where it was first implemented) and also soon in a bitcoin wallet, but later in various other crypto systems as well.)

And for some other details of a project which will enable microtransactions which was spawned by ideas which were first discussed in the ABIS repo at https://github.com/ABISprotocol/ABIS -- please see http://subsatoshi.org/ which was developed by a colleague of mine, ktorn, and some other folks.

Actually, no, CT for example can be a softfork change to Segwit.  That is just one way to go about it.  A hard fork is not a prerequisite. 

Recently there has been work on ZeroLink by nopara73 (and others), and 'Ricochet,' which is itself already incorporated into the Samourai wallet. So the question certainly arises:  If we think privacy and fungibility is important, why haven't we been working harder on making this happen in Core?

I would submit that now is a good as time as any to revive the open discussion, and provide some code contributions, here:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6568

If 2018 is really the year in which this could happen, let's not squander the opportunity.

Excellent, I like the new site.

I told myself I would no longer participate in this thread because of all the misinformation and FUD about BCN being thrown about primarily by a certain individual associated with monero who spends a lot of time on bitcointalk.

However, I want to jump back in briefly to say I really like the new improvements to the website - keep it up.

- ABISprotocol (contributed "ABIS" concept to BCN project)

Great point, and I think our next big step should be to acquire financial institutions or increase shares of institutions so that we can make sure we are in position to set policy that will reduce restrictions on crypto and allow the conversion from fiat to crypto to keep flowing.  The banks have been placing increasing restrictions; meanwhile their branches have been steadily decreasing as they have begun to be outcompeted, and currently around 2/3rds of the world is in SystemD (the mostly unregulated economy, the participants in SystemD being referred to generally as Debrouillards).  Thus we must not only develop systems that overturn and are of higher value than the banks, we must now turn to acquiring the antiquated systems and bringing them under our direct control so that they do not further hamper our efforts.

The resources must flow freely.  No more of this "some for thee and none for thou."  I've also had quite enough of people suggesting that (along the lines of the ridiculous assertions made based on Panama Papers) that we shouldn't have offshore accounts or that we should always be beholden to this state or that.  See my article on that here:

https://thecryptosphere.com/2016/04/19/paying-the-piper-panamapapers-or-how-your-ghost-in-the-shell-returns/

So yes, the next step is (in addition to deploying satellites and suchlike) we must start acquiring interests in legacy institutions, so that we can control those institutions (instead of the financial institutions controlling us), and specifically so that the "spice will be allowed to flow" so that people will be allowed to freely move their resources as they see fit. 

(The following was a response to a question from Ucy on June 25, 2017, but due to newly available technologies since then this post has been remade and updated a bit).
   
   
Re: What if Governments Shutdown the Internet?
June 30, 2017, 07:56:28 AM
   
from: Ucy on June 25, 2017, 06:45:26 PM

"Pls I need to know something,  Is it possible to exchange Bitcoin with other people without being connected to the Internet?
Let say the government bans the Internet and you have your Bitcoin offline(in cold storage right?), can you exchange the Bitcoin to the next person by simply transferring some Bitcoin from cold storage to his/her computer, phone or even data storage devices(like SD Card, USB, Hard drive etc)?"


TL;DR:  Yes.

See, for example, some discussion of the offline transmission of wood and paper token concept at

https://thecryptosphere.com/2015/05/19/rebuilding-communities-and-identities-with-usb-sticks-and-love-by-anonyodinn/

People tend to forget that NFC capacity is built right into bitcoin so that makes it easy to scan and do all sorts of things with, without actually having to have a full "online" system completely operational.  There have been whole discussions about transacting without confirmations and consensus (to a certain degree, in other words without a great many people available to do so until a network is developed or recovers) and yes it is possible, I don't want to have this conversation all over again.  So I won't even go there.  Will not beat a dead horse.

See the total offline setup with minimal hardware requirements (though you'd also need to add some small solar panels and ideally a small battery bank - you can buy all this solar energy stuff you need in REI sporting goods store nowadays - easily and cheaply)

Don't have / don't want / can't get solar energy item / no REI?  Fine, just google / duckduckgo / alibaba search the following:

Chinese bicycle powered generator

There's your cheap energy!

And here's how to do bitcoin with no internet.  You will be the talk of the town after the energy apocalypse.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170221235057/http://betteroffbitcoin.com/a-protocol-for-offline-bitcoin-over-radio-transactions/

Note that you will need to have this set up (with written instructions about the above on paper) before a major event hits such as a power outage / natural disaster / war problem.  But yes.  It is absolutely possible and not only that, people are doing it. 

Also, it's possible to broadcast bitcoin txs over television (which doesn't require internet and doesn't require MURS radio setup... but if the power goes out regionally so does the TV (in the region of an outage).

See: https://web.archive.org/web/20160826195212/https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kryptoradio-successfully-broadcasts-bitcoin-over-finnish-television-network/

It's been done in Finland and I think elsewhere, using DVB-T signal, which covers half the world.  By the way, DTMB is used in China, Hong Kong and Macau, so in case you were thinking about it, it's not that far of a leap to figure out a way to transmit bitcoin through tv waves and bypass any current or future Great Firewall controls.

However, I should point out that it's possible and it's been done to do it via TV, anyway, which doesn't rely upon internet.  It's also already been done so it's not just a hypothetical as in "what if we could."  Since it has already been done in (a couple) countries, I've suggested (here and also on github in some projects under development) that it also be tried as an anti-censorship mechanism to address problems that users have already experienced transacting with Chinese counterparts.

They will never get rid of their TV, so.... you know, ride the wave.

Finally, this is worth mentioning (although I'm honestly not sure what happens to satellites when there are major systemwide outages - satellites like all things are subject to attack, malfunction, problems etc., but I am no expert on them by any means) -- there is of course the bitcoin satellite project which is intended to reduce the level to which people would need internet for bitcoin to work.  So here is the page on that, mentioned here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170916181834/https://blockstream.com/satellite/

from their August 15, 2017 announcement:

"Blockstream Satellite is the world’s first service that broadcasts real-time Bitcoin transactions and blocks from a group of satellites in space. With the service, everyone will have free access to the Bitcoin network, in any corner of the world, including the estimated four billion people not currently connected to the Internet, due to lack of availability or affordability.

On launch today, Blockstream Satellite is already available across two thirds of the Earth’s landmass; and will reach global coverage – to everyone on the planet – by end of year. As more people access the Bitcoin blockchain with Blockstream Satellite, we expect to see even more adoption and use cases for Bitcoin as well as a strengthening of the overall robustness of the network."

And as a side note, the Bitcoin wiki on Lightning network states in part, regarding "key features," that "payments can be routed across more than one blockchain (including altcoins and sidechains) as long as all the chains support the same hash function to use for the hash lock, as well as the ability the ability to create time locks."  This is doable now that Segwit is done. Such features will not emerge immediately, but will occur in the future (1-2 years time down the road).  This will actually generate further resistance to censorship.

This is not true, and this argument has been so beat to death in so many bitcointalk threads that it's simply not even worth typing out a coherent argument again to explain why bitcoin would actually be fine in such a circumstance.

TL;DR:  Yes.

See, for example, some discussion of the offline transmission of wood and paper token concept at

https://thecryptosphere.com/2015/05/19/rebuilding-communities-and-identities-with-usb-sticks-and-love-by-anonyodinn/

People tend to forget that NFC capacity is built right into bitcoin so that makes it easy to scan and do all sorts of things with, without actually having to have a full "online" system completely operational.  There have been whole discussions about transacting without confirmations and consensus (to a certain degree, in other words without a great many people available to do so until a network is developed or recovers) and YES IT IS POSSIBLE, I don't want to have this conversation all over again.  So I won't even go there.  Will not beat a dead horse.

See the total offline setup with minimal hardware requirements (though you'd also need to add some small solar panels and ideally a small battery bank - you can buy all this solar energy stuff you need in REI sporting goods store nowadays)

http://betteroffbitcoin.com/a-protocol-for-offline-bitcoin-over-radio-transactions/

Note that you will need to have this set up (with written instructions on paper) before a major event hits such as a power outage / natural disaster / war problem.  But yes.  It is absolutely possible and not only that, people are doing it.  

Also, it's possible to broadcast bitcoin txs over television (which doesn't require internet and doesn't require MURS radio setup... but if the power goes out regionally so does the TV.  

However, I should point out that it's possible to do it via TV, anyway, which doesn't rely upon internet.  It's also already been done so it's not just a hypothetical as in "what if we could."  Since it has already been done in (a couple) countries, I've suggested that it also be tried in China as an anti-censorship mechanism.

They will never get rid of their TV, so.... you know, ride the wave.

 Discussion at:  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10494

The survey / poll is now finished, thanks for participating.  Results will be posted as part of an open issue on the bitcoin core repository that will discuss this further.

As I understand it, ecdsa.net also works to support UASF on Electrum (just in terms of selecting a server that is supporting BIP148).

The basis for this claim is a post from Electrum twitter at:

https://twitter.com/ElectrumWallet/status/852174246205956096

I'm not sure how easy it will be for your Electrum wallet to get connected to this so it may depend on the situation, traffic, etc. 

Hope this helps!  Add servers to this list if there's more that have been patched to enforce UASF.

This is a super old post but I felt it was worthwhile to update the above comment a bit in case people end up using it for reference or help and also because of the UASF issue, I wanted to post this comment and provide the below guides.

OK, so here goes:

1) for those who run a full node for Electrum:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6duc4y/electrum_29_will_be_codenamed_independence_uasf/di60v03/

2) for those who are thinking about running a full node (Electrum), this is a super helpful guide:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6dvse7/uasfbip148_guide_what_you_can_do_before_august_1st/

3) If you are not running a full node in Electrum you should at least be using client that enforces BIP148, here is a post that describes how that may be helpful:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1865793.0

Hope this helps!

It's a survey so feel free to answer however you want.

The survey is up here and will be posted for another five days from the date of this bitcointalk post.

https://dia.so/2jP (links to twitter poll / survey)

If you would rather take the diaspora poll (if you don't use twitter / don't have a twitter account etc.) then link to the diaspora poll at:

https://diasp.org/posts/7375805

All results will be tallied five days from the date of this post.

CEX.io does not count because of this https://support.cex.io/hc/en-us/articles/215744957-Identity-Verification-Guide

There are very few left that will actually let you trade cryptocoins and fiat and withdraw fiat without any verification.  They do exist but they are few in number and you have to seek them out, bearing in mind they could close at any time also.

Making the need for things like Bitsquare, Voluntary.net (Bitmarkets) and Exchanged.I2P all the more vital.

Just FYI, the veracity of the list originally posted by OP has changed somewhat.  I think there are now something like just four on that list that actually don't require verification to trade cryptocoins and fiat and withdraw fiat. 

The individual wouldn't be finishing the lowers, it would be robots.  Basically there would be no human intervention whatever.  Robots would be doing everything from procurement to subtractive machining to delivery.  There would be no sale, the items would be given away.  Technically there would be what would amount to transfers, but government entities would have to go and invent a whole new class of crime since technically a robot can't be prosecuted for transferring without a license.  Presumably any potential "crime" a robot might be charged with for transferring a completed lower to someone could be mitigated / prevented by having interested parties make a small deposit (possibly in bitcoin) with the smart property tied to the robot(s) such that it would provably assert temporary ownership of a portion of the robot (and of the code which carries out its instructions) during the limited time the robot is working on subtractive machining on the item which will eventually be sent to the human individual.


    Not to mention the fact that in most states, the act of making a lower for one's own personal use without registration and state-mandated S/Ns isn't a crime anyway, that is only planned in the North Korean state of California (AB 857, which becomes effective in July 2018) and it's likely to be contested in court when it becomes ripe to challenge in the year it becomes "effective."


As mentioned, this idea is quite conceptual at this stage, there is nothing in any warehouse that would actually implement the idea - I don't have a horde of robots at my beck and call, but since there are already similar projects underway (e.g. the farmbot with smart property, etc), the feasibility of it is not in question.

Title of this post should really be "Please run a full node, because..." followed by some short blurb about why that's important.  There are various people reading here new or new-ish to bitcoin or are returning to it very interested after hiatus.

Also a reference to bitcoin.org/en/full-node isn't the best.  I think they need to shorten that instructional.  And what many people don't realize if they have never run a full node before is the port 8333 thing is actually important.  That is buried in the text of the instructions at bitcoin.org/en/full-node way at the end, easy to miss, and it's not explained why it's important.  

Here are a few examples of reddit discussions lately about full nodes and how-to's

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5yubg0/run_a_014_fullnode_on_raspberrypi3_prunedless/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/624xd0/first_time_running_bitcoin_core_full_node/

By the way, this handy site tells you kind of why it's important regarding the port issue, and even tells you if port 8333 is open or closed for you.  https://www.lurkmore.com/mining/port8333/