This is what happens when low IQ monkeys attempt to refute human on complex human technologies. Their brains implode then they scream and run back to their trees to eat bananas.

I've not seen anyone who can refute franky1's points with facts and logic.

All Blockstream/Core shills can do is use troll and group think echo chamber tactics on him.

Their thinking is that if they can get 50 other idiots to agree that the earth is flat, then they can hardfork reality.

Ok let's say for a moment I explore your conclusion that 'Miners (especially Jihan) were using ASICBoost, ASICBoost was an important part of their businesses, they would like to see ASICBoost continue to work, they would also reject any proposals that may affect ASICBoost'.

When I explore this possibility, a few issues pop up:
1.
There is still no evidence that miners have been using ASICBoost.

(That's why I kept asking you for evidence to support your claim).

2.
SegWit was incompatible with ASICBoost right at the beginning.

(Even if I entertain your idea that Jihan simply overlooked in the beginning, I believe he would have pulled out much sooner.)

3.
If I am Jihan, one of the most experienced miner in existence, I have patened ASICBoost, and I have been using ASICBoost and I want to continue using it.

Then I am someone with clear understanding of the internals of the entire mining operation, someone who knows better than anyone else what would make ASICBoost work better, and what would make ASICBoost stop working.

Since ASICBoost directly affects my profit, when I look at new proposals, one of the first thing I look at will be how this proposal will affect ASICBoost, it is very unlikely for me to suddenly become a newbie and overlook obvious changes, such as the coinbase now has a 'witness root hash', which changes every time transactions are reordered, rending my ASICBoost useless.

(I find it hard to believe that if other devs can see ASICBoost doesn't work on SegWit, an experienced miner who depends on ASICBoost would miss it)

4.
Blockstream/Core have been intentionally stalling on blocksize increase, Luke Jr later even suggested changing it to 300kb, they also made changes to the code so that tx fee would remain high for longer, some of them were flat out insulting the miners, they clearly have been acting in bad faith all year long. SegWit's design is also problematic, it does not offer true blocksize increase.

After a year of stagnation, 1M blocks are full all the time, if miners continue to do nothing about the blocksize, the situation is going to hurt Bitcoin's growth, stalling for another year means losing a year's worth of potential extra fee from new growth tx.

If miners give in and support SegWit's fake blocksize increase, it'll also hurt their profit, miners were expecting 2MB HF non-witness blocksize increase when they signed the agreement, Blockstream/Core later turned it into a fake 1.7MB increase that'll take a long time to reach.

Plus, they simply don't trust Blockstream/Core at this point, remember, some miners wanted 4M or 8M blocks.

All these are realistic reasons for miners to switch their support to something else that has real blocksize increase and no strings attached.

BU is not a superior alternative, but miners are going for it because they really want the blocksize increase.

At the end of the day, what miners really want is just bigger blocks.

(To entertain your idea, I have to overlook all these reasons as if they don't exist, I have to pretend nothing much has happened in the past year)

5.
Bitmain's suggestion is that instead of making a big deal out of ASICBoost, a win-win situation would be to talk to the patent owners so everyone can use ASICBoost together.

If everyone is using ASICBoost, then no one has an advantage over others, but everyone saves electricity. The keyword here is 'everyone'.

If you read Bitmain's announcement, the entire paragraph reads:
"Gregory Maxwell’s recent proposal suggests changing 2^32 collision to 2^64 collision to make ASICBOOST more difficult. The result of this would be a loss for the patent owners and the Bitcoin protocol. The patent owners will get nothing and Bitcoin protocol will become more complicated. The only beneficiary will be the technical bureaucrats who are engineering it. The more complicated the protocol is, the higher the cost and barrier to have multiple implementations become. We confirm that we support multiple implementations because they will bring more innovation and better security to the network, while threatening the monopolistic position of certain developers."

But here you only focus on "hurt their patent holders" and ignored the other part.

(So I don't understand why you kept trying to turn an idea that can benefit everyone, into an idea that only benefits Jihan himself, then use it for another argument.)

6.
Let's say I am now exploring the idea that anything is possible in this universe, after all nobody can be certain what the miners were really thinking, unless they are the miners themselves.

So I ignore all the reasons above, I ignore everything Blockstream/Core have been doing, and play logic gymnastics to narrow down onto a single possibility, for example, your conclusion.

The problem then is, when I do that, I have to overlook so many things that I am accepting it only because nothing is impossible.

That means I also have to believe in infinite other fringe possibilities, including all the plausible as well as nut job conspiracies.

And this is what puzzled me with your conclusion, your conclusion requires such an extreme open mind to explore or accept, yet, you weren't offering it as a possibility, you were using your conclusion to attack other people's conclusions, conclusions that had more evidence and reasoning than yours.

For example when I offered the link that someone on twitter looked into recent blockchain activity and found no evidence of ASICBoost usage, that was just to indicate my conclusion had more supporting evidence than yours.

But you didn't take that evidence with an open mind, you went for insults, when your conclusion had even less evidence.

You were also dismissive to more probable possibilities, such as Jihan signed an agreement that would work against ASICBoost simply because he didn't care to use ASICBoost at all.

It seemed to me that you have already decided what the reality was, and you were on a mission to ignore all evidence and reason that would contradict your reality.

Ignoring all the trolling, it wasn't so much about 'proving something or someone wrong', but more about which conclusion has more evidence and reasoning behind it, it was more about not willing to narrow down on one fringe possibility, while ignoring more obvious and evidence supported possibilities.

It doesn't matter what you think, it's all in the evidence.

Evidence have proven ASICBoost was never an issue, it never would have worked on SegWit, Ext Block was base on SegWit so ASICBoost never would have worked on that either. The key is in the 'witness root hash', it's in both SegWit and Ext Block right at the start.

You're just having a hard time accepting that.
That's why you still think you can troll your way back.

As long as you continue to ignore the evidence that has been there the whole time, even if you continue to troll 10 more pages, you will still be as clueless about ASICBoost as you were on page one.

You thought you were a good troll so I had a little fun with you, while I was pointing out the fact that ASICBoost never would have worked. ASICBoost is just a red herring Blockstream used to distract people.

How long you are going to take to accept that, depends on the size of your ego.

All I asked is when will your predictions come true.
Why the big reaction? Are you embarrassed? That's good enough for me.

Sure, call your own previous prediction a straw man and make a new one that's the complete opposite, that's one way to back track, I am sure no one would notice the screeching noise.

Now I don't think he's a paid shill either, I think he's a paid fortune teller.

LOL like I said, I like your endless bullshit energy.

I don't think you understand, once you get caught bullshitting like this what you say no longer matters.
You're now just a fucking whiny clown who talk bullshit and make bullshit prophecies.

Where is the news on Jihan dropping support on Ext Block anyway?
Can we have an ETA on that, Mr. all-will-be-revealed Jihan expert?

That's interesting, can we confirm that by far Bitfury is the only pool picking these up?
As if Bitfury wants to collect their spam fee back.

Note that Bitfury and Blockstream share the same investors, some interesting links:
Investors in BitFury Group also invested in Blockstream
A Look at DCG & Bitfury's Incestuous Ties With the U.S. Government

If I've told you once I've told you a thousand times.
You got burned because you acted like a know-it-all authority and trolled me by name, here:


You then continued to act like an authority with bullshits like:

There were pages of these, but you had absolutely no idea what you were talking about the whole god damn time.

Here, this little nugget of yours really takes the cake:


I dont understand why the most uninformed and delusional noob on this forum is acting like some kind of authority of past, current and future reality.

Here is an idea, if you know you're a noob, why don't you just shut the fuck up.

I've never seen anyone on here who know so little but talk so much bullshit.

None of this would have happened if you didn't stick your head so far up your ass.

Consensus by DDoS, just the way Satoshi liked it. /s

Part 2 - AgentofCoin's prophecies

One thing I like about AgentofCoin is his energy.

He believed in his own delusions so much he probably didn't even know he's lying. (A classic INFP trait)

He repeatedly dived head first into his own delusion, made false statements, correct others, launched personal attacks, even created prophecies, all base on something that is completely false.

He was completely oblivious to how stupid he'd look when his bullshit is exposed.

It takes talent to do that, I like people with talents,
If he didn't troll me by name I probably would have just let him do his thing. But he did, so here we are.

Let's look at AgentofCoin's prophecies:

See that definitive and authoritative attitude?

That's the kind of talent you need when you want to act like a prophet.

You have to act like you've already seen the future.

Now let's look at what he said about acting like a prophet:


See that talent in bullshitting? It just oozes out nonstop, one after another.
It really takes talent to bullshit so often in so many details.
Even my ass is jealous of the amount of bullshit that came out of his mouth.

Oh and one more juicy prophecy nugget from AgentofCoin, way back in 2014:


Two of AgentofCoin's paragraph style in this thread was exactly like Greg's, it got me curious for a while.
So I checked his first page of post to see how much his posts would resembled Greg's. Turned out the first things he did after coming to this board was to make prophecies.

If I can find 3 prophecies in this thread and another prophecy in his first few posts ever on this board, I am sure he made plenty of others prophecies, but showing 4 prophecies is enough, I can't be fucked looking for more.

I was going to write Part 3 - AgentofCoin's sensual side.
Once INFP realize their tactics don't work, they play emotional guilt trip.

But I got bored. Once I knew what AgentofCoin is, what his tactics are, I realize I've already learned them before, so he's no longer a challenge or interest. Even more so after I've made him look like an ass.

AgentofCoin's Weak Logic

If AgentofCoin relied less on delusions and apply stronger logic, I might have played for longer, but these type of low logic replies just make people lose interest quickly:


If I say to the president of any country:"If I have to lie like a dumb fuck on tv all the time, I'd quit in a week", AgentofCoin's logic is that I have the same job as that president. I don't know what to tell you, but these arguments are just too retarded, they're not even fun to rebut.

By the way, I placed a trap door in INFP, but it doesn't matter, at this point AgentofCoin is no longer a challenge.

Oh btw, If we wait long enough, I am sure AgentofCoin's prohecy of "Jihan will no longer support that Ext Block proposal." will come true, maybe after 50-100 years.

Thanks for playing.

Part 1 - AgentofCoin's delusions.

AgentofCoin's delusional began right from the start, so let's go back to the beginning, when he tried to bullshit jonald_fyookball with his own delusion on page 1.


Notice how:
1. AgentofCoin defines a new reality right from the get go.

2. AgentofCoin then began to describe that delusion: When the miners signed the HK agreement, they had no idea ASICBoost wouldn't work. Miners would never support SegWit if there is a 'new coinbase reference' ('new coinbase reference' is AgentofCoin's way of discribing the 'witness root hash', the thing in the coinbase that makes ASICBoost useless.)

3. AgentofCoin also claimed Jihan only pulled support from SegWit after he realized ASICBoost would not work on SegWit.

In short, AgentofCoin is claiming miners would not agree to any proposal that makes ASICBoost useless.

Note that this argument is what AgentofCoin insisted to the end, it is the main argument that all his other delusion/sub-argument/prophecies/personal-attacks are base on, if this is proven false, at least 80% of the bullshit he posted after is also false.

Now let's do a reality check:
1. The 'Hong Kong Agreement' was signed on 21st Feb 2016. (Source).

2. The 12th Jan 2016 version of BIP-141 (SegWit), is already incompatible with ASICBoost, because the coinbase has something call the 'witness root hash'. Quote BIP-141:'The new commitment in coinbase transaction is a hash of the witness root hash' (Link).

3. This is further clarified on the 24th Jan 2016 'Clarify txid and wtxid' update of BIP-141 (SegWit), in which it stated the 'witness root hash' contains a list of 'wtxid', when witness is not used, wtxid value is the same as normal txid. So, the 'witness root hash' contains a list of transaction id, this is what makes ASICBoost incompatible.

4. I repeat: SegWit has been factually proven to be incompatible with ASICBoost since 24th Jan 2016. (So is Ext Block, because it is base on BIP-141 aka SegWit)

5. Miners had almost a month to find out that ASICBoost wouldn't work with SegWit, before the signing of the agreement.

6. Miners continued to support SegWit long after the agreement was signed.

7. The one thing that made ASICBoost useless, the 'witness root hash', was already defined in 24th Jan 2016, 28 days before the signing of the agreement. The 'witness root hash' hasn't changed much since.

8. Jihan, as one of the agreement's signatory, had plenty of time to learn that ASICBoost wouldn't work on SegWit.

9. Remember, AgentofCoin is a guy who kept arguing over Jihan could learn about SegWit changes in 1hr or 2hr, so 28 days should be plenty for Jihan to learn that SegWit wouldn't work for ASICBoost.

'witness root hash'
'witness root hash' is what makes ASICBoost meaningless, this is common knowledge to those familiar with the basics of SegWit and ASICBoost.
A quote from the Dev & Tech forum mod will prove this:

So now we know that:
1. AgentofCoin is delusional or dishonest.
2. AgentofCoin likes to make statements that are simply not true.
3. AgentofCoin likes to argue with people using his delusion/dishonesty.
4. AgentofCoin likes to pretend to understand how miners think.
5. AgentofCoin likes to think he knows more than the miners.
6. AgentofCoin does not have the basic knowledge required to talk about ASICBoost and SegWit.
7. AgentofCoin likes to describe his delusion/lies in more details that are completely made up, instead of keep quiet when he doesn't understand what is being discussed.
8. AgentofCoin is the kind of guy that'll bullshit to the end unless you utterly expose him, even then, he might still continue his bullshit.

We also know that:
At least 80% of AgentofCoin's argument is this thread is now proved to be false, because AgentofCoin based those arguments on:

1. Miners would not have known that SegWit was incompatible with ASICBoost when they signed the agreement.
2. Miners would not support any proposal that support ASICBoost.

When you stack one bullshit on top of another, all people need to do is crack open the first one, and the entire bullshit structure falls apart like a house of cards.

Now we've established AgentofCoin is a delusional lying retard who likes to talk shit.
Let's move onto part 2 and talk about his 'prophecies'.

Since AgentofCoin made a lot of bullshit arguments and personal attacks base on a bunch of predictions.
I gave it a few more days so AgentofCoin have more time to solidify his 'false prophet' status.


So not only am I dealing with a dishonest Blockstream shill, I am actually also dealing with a classic low information low IQ INFP.

INFP are very strong in emotion and imagination, but very weak in handling logic, facts and structure.

They think facts and logic should bend to imagination, not the other way around.

When they debate, they think it's a race of out-imagining the other guy, they also think if they can describe their imagination in detail, the other guy should agree, even if their delusion is base on complete bullshit.

Sometimes INFP knows they are bullshitting, but they're hoping by describing the bullshit in great detail, others will be distracted and won't be able to catch up.

I like to toy with shills and trolls that have an attitude.

So AgentofCoin, I am going to completely and utterly expose your strategy, and point out exactly where you tried to bullshit people.

If you've just tuned in and this is the first time you read AgentofCoin's post, keep in mind AgentofCoin is a classic INFP so his tactic would be 1. Create a false reality in his head. 2. Describe the false reality in detail to confuse and distract you.

AgentofCoin, the reason you keep doubting the fact that I baited you all along
was because this is probably the first time you've met people like us.

People like us like challenges, but we play the players, not the game, because we like to understand how things work.
Once we got the facts and logic straight, we know when people are lying, that doesn't concern us.
We are more interested in what you are, how you work and why you do what you do, more than what you actually say.
We see talent in people, we are always looking for new talents and new challenges.

When you present yourself as a challenge,
we treat everything like chess, we place baits, we set traps.
By the time you wiggle out of one there is another one waiting.
We toy with our opponents like a cat toy with a mouse.
From the way they react, we analyze their strengths and weaknesses.
Map out their logic, understand their patterns, absorb all their tactics for future use.
Once we lose interest, we press the kill switch that was created right at the start.

I am losing interest, so here is the kill switch you never saw coming.

Remember, you asked for this when you mentioned my name in page 1. I never asked for you.

The only link you've posted is a news article from Coindesk, a Blockstream mouth piece, the article doesn't have any evidence in it.
The rest is just could-be-would-be/he-said-she-said, typical Blockstream bullshit.

Where are the hard evidence? Where is the data?
You talk a lot, but you have nothing in your hands.

It is the all-new 'pubic hair factory explosion' look.

Here is a good one from r/btc:

BitcoinIsTehFuture:
lol, "Consensus DDoSing": the latest and greatest innovation from Blockstream Core!

When other open source communities learn about the history of Bitcoin, they're going to be gobsmacked by all the dirty stunts Blockstream and gang have been pulling.

You can't make this stuff up, these guys are so blatantly lying their asses off, going against users and common sense every step of the way, and their strategies don't even work, they kept pulling new stunts that kept backfiring, it is comical if not tragic.

This is so much worse than SCO vs Linux, this goes way beyond tech, and will be one for the history books.

When I read Blockstream's Samson announcement tweet, I literally LOL'd at the term 'Chief Strategy Officer', it was interpreted it as:
Blockstream: 'We need more trolls and we need them now'

Next they're going to hire Lauda as Chief Communication Officer, running Blockstream's Ministry Of Truth.

This is exactly the kind of retarded reasoning that gets Blockstream/Core bad PR.
You're not going to provide proof because you have none.

Sam Cole and Guy Corem also have patent on ASICBoost, are they attacking the network too?

You made an accusation, all I asked for is a little proof.
Just show people what you have, why talk so much bullshit.