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[2014-06-30] abc.net.au - Bitcoin tax status in limbo as ATO seeks legal advice
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-30/tax-office-delays-ruling-on-bitcoin/5559816
The Australian Tax Office (ATO) has delayed a keenly awaited ruling on the digital currency Bitcoin, leaving the tax status for businesses which accept Bitcoin in limbo.
The ATO has been grappling with the question of whether to classify Bitcoin as money or property for years.
Many in Australia's Bitcoin industry had been hoping the ATO would release its taxation guidance note in time for the end of the financial year.
However that looks unlikely, with the ATO asking Australia's Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson for further advice.
It means businesses in Australia which accept Bitcoin have to keep trading without knowing what tax they may be liable for in the future, and may face large backdated tax bills for digital currency transactions.
A spokesman for the ATO says the department has received "numerous" submissions from the Australian public about the taxation treatment of digital currencies.
He says the ATO needed to make sure its ruling was within the boundaries of Australian law.
"To ensure our advice to the community is comprehensive and robust we have sought further advice from external legal counsel," the spokesman said.
"We have also received representations from industry bodies seeking to provide us with further information."
The Bitcoin Association of Australia is disappointed with the lack of immediate guidance, but says it is happy the Solicitor-General is looking into the matter.
"As digital currencies such as Bitcoin are now a permanent part of our financial landscape, it is important for Australian regulators and legislators to foster and nurture growth," the association's president Jason Williams said.
"The ATO's position will deliver one of the first precedents in the Australian legal and regulatory landscape and will be an influential benchmark.
"As such, it is important not to rush decisions."
Earlier this month, the ABC revealed the ATO has kept a wide-ranging watching brief on digital currency news and movements domestically and internationally.
Freedom of Information (FOI) documents showed the ATO was growing increasingly concerned people may be using Bitcoin or other internet currencies to avoid paying tax.
When the guidance note is release, it will reveal how the tax office will treat Bitcoin transactions.
It will either treat Bitcoin as money similar to how it treats foreign exchange currencies or as goods.
If it is not treated as money, tax accountants say it will require significantly more complex accounting methods and attract different and more tax.
The Australian Tax Office (ATO) has delayed a keenly awaited ruling on the digital currency Bitcoin, leaving the tax status for businesses which accept Bitcoin in limbo.
The ATO has been grappling with the question of whether to classify Bitcoin as money or property for years.
Many in Australia's Bitcoin industry had been hoping the ATO would release its taxation guidance note in time for the end of the financial year.
However that looks unlikely, with the ATO asking Australia's Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson for further advice.
It means businesses in Australia which accept Bitcoin have to keep trading without knowing what tax they may be liable for in the future, and may face large backdated tax bills for digital currency transactions.
A spokesman for the ATO says the department has received "numerous" submissions from the Australian public about the taxation treatment of digital currencies.
He says the ATO needed to make sure its ruling was within the boundaries of Australian law.
"To ensure our advice to the community is comprehensive and robust we have sought further advice from external legal counsel," the spokesman said.
"We have also received representations from industry bodies seeking to provide us with further information."
The Bitcoin Association of Australia is disappointed with the lack of immediate guidance, but says it is happy the Solicitor-General is looking into the matter.
"As digital currencies such as Bitcoin are now a permanent part of our financial landscape, it is important for Australian regulators and legislators to foster and nurture growth," the association's president Jason Williams said.
"The ATO's position will deliver one of the first precedents in the Australian legal and regulatory landscape and will be an influential benchmark.
"As such, it is important not to rush decisions."
Earlier this month, the ABC revealed the ATO has kept a wide-ranging watching brief on digital currency news and movements domestically and internationally.
Freedom of Information (FOI) documents showed the ATO was growing increasingly concerned people may be using Bitcoin or other internet currencies to avoid paying tax.
When the guidance note is release, it will reveal how the tax office will treat Bitcoin transactions.
It will either treat Bitcoin as money similar to how it treats foreign exchange currencies or as goods.
If it is not treated as money, tax accountants say it will require significantly more complex accounting methods and attract different and more tax.
Seems like a lot of people are assuming that the Gen 3 will be a success.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
Could be 2 months till a working product after tape-out. Also I thought gen2 was skipped because gen3 looked so much more promising. Knc is probably the biggest competitor and they will probably ship at the end of q2.
Gen 2 was skipped/cancelled due to the poor performance. Have a look back at friedcat's posts.
Source?
I found this:
so Gen2 is skipped?
I'd also be very interested to hear the answer to this.It's frustrating seeing responses which indicate that all the questions in this thread are being read, yet ignored.
Yes, it was skipped. FC mentioned this in the past. Apparently the performance wasn't as good as they hoped and they just decided to move on... probably a good move.
1) Gen2 would come out relatively late due to some factors outside of AM's control
2) Gen3 shows promising results and the roll-out seems to be better/more reliably organized
Thus funds are better to be spent on Gen3 hardware. The production schedule will depend on a risk/reward ratio determined by friedcat. Deviations from the schedule need to be anticipated when rolling out a new product technology, so hedge accordingly when speculating on AM.
I'm surprised you are asking as not too long ago you said this:
The reason we are seeing such a price dip is because gen2 chips from AM were skipped which lead to a long gap between new hardware. The reason it was skipped was due to unsatisfactory performance and FC believes gen3 is more promising. Also by skipping gen2, gen3 will arrive sooner.
Seems like a lot of people are assuming that the Gen 3 will be a success.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
If gen 3 is lower cost to run it won't matter when it comes out. It will simply outhash everything out there and make older chips obsolete.
Yes, fair enough.
But look at what happened to BFL, Avalon, Cointera, HashFast, ActM, and even AsicMiner. Everyone's roadmap was quite different to what they initially planned. The chances of the chip design to under perform or having a big delay is quite likely.
Seems like a lot of people are assuming that the Gen 3 will be a success.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
Could be 2 months till a working product after tape-out. Also I thought gen2 was skipped because gen3 looked so much more promising. Knc is probably the biggest competitor and they will probably ship at the end of q2.
Gen 2 was skipped/cancelled due to the poor performance. Have a look back at friedcat's posts.
Re: 2014-01-03 - smh.com.au - NSA researching quantum computer
no mention of bitcoin
Is there an echo in here?
Seems like a lot of people are assuming that the Gen 3 will be a success.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
It is still too early to make such a call considering that the Gen 2 had to be cancelled due to the under performing chip design.
Even if the Gen 3 chip does perform, there are still 3-4 months before they are implemented in functional miners, and that is a very long time in the Bitcoin world.
Re: 2014-01-03 - smh.com.au - NSA researching quantum computer
@ neutrinox The hundreds of others do not have the technological and monetary backing as NSA does.
@cr1776 No, Bitcoin was not mentioned in the article, but quantum computing would have a massive impact on all kinds of encryption, including Bitcoin.
@cr1776 No, Bitcoin was not mentioned in the article, but quantum computing would have a massive impact on all kinds of encryption, including Bitcoin.
Nope just a little change.
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-can-fix/
Interesting article. Thank you.
Something else I thought of while reading that article:
The article says that the bitcoins would have to be moved from the old address to a new one to prevent the bitcoins from being stolen.
That would be very interesting as it would identify "active" bitcoins, and any bitcoins not moved could be "safely" considered as lost.
Imagine seeing Satoshi's bitcoins moving to a new address. That would create some press.
Re: 2014-01-03 - smh.com.au - NSA researching quantum computer
@ neutrinox The hundreds of others do not have the technological and monetary backing as NSA does.
@cr1776 No, Bitcoin was not mentioned in the article, but quantum computing would have a massive impact on all kinds of encryption, including Bitcoin.
@cr1776 No, Bitcoin was not mentioned in the article, but quantum computing would have a massive impact on all kinds of encryption, including Bitcoin.
2014-01-03 - smh.com.au - NSA researching quantum computer
Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]
This reminds me of the whole Labcoin saga.
No photos, no proof of any kind, lack of communication...Actually is seems to be even worse, there are no two more weeks promises, and no one is able to have some fun and impulsively trade shares.
What happened to of all the ActM cheerleaders that "knew" that Labcoin was a scam? How come their scam radar is not going off?
No photos, no proof of any kind, lack of communication...Actually is seems to be even worse, there are no two more weeks promises, and no one is able to have some fun and impulsively trade shares.
What happened to of all the ActM cheerleaders that "knew" that Labcoin was a scam? How come their scam radar is not going off?
Why has the pre-order date for the fast hash one silver changed from Dec 31 to March 2014? Will this affect pre-existing orders?
Can we cancel pre-orders and receive a refund?
Can we cancel pre-orders and receive a refund?
These messages make me laugh so hard. Kasnec tried contacting VMC for those answers?
More like an illegitimate child of BFL and Labcoin.
Re: [CRYPTOSTOCKS] Labcoin Official Thread - Self-Moderated
I think i found reason why LBC is not hashing anymore 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-Bitcoin-mining-ASIC-RIG-25-x-Bitfury-Miner-Full-Kit-speed-11-TH-s-/221319977317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3387b2d965
Seller is from Italy.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-Bitcoin-mining-ASIC-RIG-25-x-Bitfury-Miner-Full-Kit-speed-11-TH-s-/221319977317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3387b2d965
Seller is from Italy.
That is a great find.
Not sure if anyone still remembers but I initially traced some of the IPO funds to the JustDice wallets.
Now I have also traced a large portion of IPO funds to BitfuryStikesBack.com wallets.
This is the transaction of 2,658.2241 BTC on the 2013-08-08, and it is the first BTC's spent from the IPO funds.
https://blockchain.info/tx/0d0ba2ecc0b2624f63d0a59c2045b0d9c6ea3f0b2c890344ab38a0b8d8e447c4
punin should be able to confirm the transaction details.
It is interesting how the ebay seller has now also changed the location of the items from Barbusi-Italy (Carbonia), which we know Alberto and Fabrizio are from, to Roma-Italy.
Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It
I think the sale was a lure to get ppl to go to HL. just like it tries to mislead you into thinking the passthrough share is an actual share: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1
So let me get this straight, it's a full share but not a whole share?
THIS is why I don't like HL. They should just try to be clear - the share they sell you isn't an actual asicminer share but a PassThrough share. I don't like how they are trying to be the "official" version of where things should be traded.
Additionally, I'd say a few dubious accounts have been glorifying Havelock a little too much on this thread and others - or at least that is my gut check, just like how people buy positive reviews in the App store when releasing an App... I understand how some of those things can happen, I'd be more open to it if there wasn't such an obvious "bending the truth" halo around everything: "the Full Share", the (too) many folks trying to get you to join, the "Official" status from being acquired by a south american entity (making it secure?)...
On the other hand, there aren't that many options available, and nothing terrible has yet to happen.
Quote
ASICMINER Full Shares (AM1)
Shares
Each 1 share of AM1 represents 1 share of ASICMINER maintained and verified by either Friedcat or any exchange ASICMINER is traded on, and has rights to all of the dividends of a whole ASICMINER share.
Shares
Each 1 share of AM1 represents 1 share of ASICMINER maintained and verified by either Friedcat or any exchange ASICMINER is traded on, and has rights to all of the dividends of a whole ASICMINER share.
So let me get this straight, it's a full share but not a whole share?
THIS is why I don't like HL. They should just try to be clear - the share they sell you isn't an actual asicminer share but a PassThrough share. I don't like how they are trying to be the "official" version of where things should be traded.
Additionally, I'd say a few dubious accounts have been glorifying Havelock a little too much on this thread and others - or at least that is my gut check, just like how people buy positive reviews in the App store when releasing an App... I understand how some of those things can happen, I'd be more open to it if there wasn't such an obvious "bending the truth" halo around everything: "the Full Share", the (too) many folks trying to get you to join, the "Official" status from being acquired by a south american entity (making it secure?)...
On the other hand, there aren't that many options available, and nothing terrible has yet to happen.
You have no idea what you are talking about. "Dubious accounts" and "bending the truth". Check the facts and you might learn something before attempting to cause panic. The HL passthrough is run by USER ThickAsThieves and every share on havelock is indeed an entire asicminer share however you look at it. In fact simply by emailing TAT you can transfer your havelock shares to direct 100% authentic FC issued shares (whatever you want to call it). As for the panama thing, A registered security exchange that has been operating since 2006 (if i remember correct) acquires a btc security exchange and you consider this a bad thing?
Just to add, ThickAsThieves is a Hero member and an AM board member.
Wasn't the cube supposed to be announced this weekend? Anybody got any news on this please share.
what news do you want, it's selling now ~435$
Where/who is selling this for 435, please and thank you. I guess the 'official asicminer hardware' thread isn't the place I should be looking then apparently.
It is listed for CAD $756 or 1.99 BTC.
http://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-ambec-01
I think that every single rack might be filled with gen1 at the moment and here is why.
I found that each row has 92 blades and each rack has 3 rows with 20 racks. Assuming the blades are getting around 13gh/s per you would get:
13 x 92 x 3 x 20 = 71,760 which is pretty close to what FC said AM was hashing at (I think he said previously 67th/s).
I found that each row has 92 blades and each rack has 3 rows with 20 racks. Assuming the blades are getting around 13gh/s per you would get:
13 x 92 x 3 x 20 = 71,760 which is pretty close to what FC said AM was hashing at (I think he said previously 67th/s).
Hmmm, we have 92blades on one "big blade", here >
how many of these big blades fits in one "bath container", if you think that only one, then you're right, but i see space for maybe 6?
When we're considering that each rack has 3 of these containers, you'll get : 13x92x6x3x20 = 430560(overclocked)/331200(normal) or 331Th ... exactly what you need for 10% of the network, like we had for few hours yesterday
So how much power would be required per rack to run these in normal/overclocked mode?
Re: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)
"Buy more while it's cheap. To the moon by mid October"
Bloody Italians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ponzi
Bloody Italians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ponzi