Sounds good.

This is an important thread, and I would like to see a serious success at this.
It's one of the holy grails of Bitcoin.

Unfortunately, they seem to come with great alacrity and go with great rapidity.

This one seems to be making a good effort, but struggling.

http://www.btcinstant.com/

Western Union goes well beyond 'scams' in terms of market penetration.

Perhaps it would be equally accurate to blame the USD (or whatever currency is the scam du jour) or bank wire transfers.

"Like Western Union via email."


That's even better.

(though Western Union has a stigma for fees)


Re: your question,
that of course leads to a currency discussion.
Don't get me wrong. Bitcoin can stand-up to any major existing currency in a debate.
But the topic of this thread is 'elevator pitch', ostensibly to a total newbie. And I believe that one of the biggest mistakes, in that regard, is to immediately overwhelm a newbie with ideology and/or technospeak.

It's like a spaceship trying to enter a planet's atmosphere, too steep and it burns up ("Ponzi! Ponzi!"), too shallow and it bounces off ("Oh, another digital utopia.").

As for me, personally, I am VERY intent on ideology. Indeed, the essential point of my website (targeted to folks who are already further along the path) is taking the Bitcoin ideology to its natural interface with personal liberation.

So, yes, as per your 'Why' posit...count me in.

[FYI...I also dug your Robert Wilson vid & posted it up.]

'Why' is near the root of the matter. I certainly agree.
But not everyone can hear the same
answer to that question.

People function at very different levels of
consciousness.

There are higher orders of answer
to 'Why'
than you or I are capable of hearing
even right now

But someone sophisticated enough
to know that
is not going to beat you or I
over the head
with that answer, albeit properly correct

If they do, that is a favorable conversation for Bitcoin.

In discussing Bitcoin, there are two paths:

1. Transaction
2. Currency

All currency conversations will lead to "ponzi".

 


Depends on the chart.

"Like Western Union via email and almost no fees."




Let them ask the questions.
Answer basic questions with simple answers.
When the questions stop, that is as far as they are ready to go.

Don't pitch the 'currency' to someone who is clueless.
Pitch the transfer of money between private parties using some free software.


Nobody has to hold Bitcoins. i.e. Dollars-->Bitcoins-->Dollars
Boom. Done.

The raison d'etre of Bitcoin is TRANSFER MECHANISM,
NOT
DEFLATIONARY
CURRENCY.

Most guys who are holding hefty chunks of Bitcoins want the
deflation-to-the-moon-currency argument made
so that they rapidly get more wild-eyed
speculators back on board
then cash out.

It's true.
It's also pretty basic human nature.
But it's bad for Bitcoin and bad karma for themselves.

Now, having said that, as more people see the utility
of this transfer mechanism,
they will have the disposition to hold it for longer periods of time.
And in that sense it develops, organically, its currency value, investment status.

But that is way beyond most people. They just want to be able
to move THE MONEY THEY KNOW with as little hassle as possible.

Bitcoin facilitates that.

The "store of value" pitch is a loser. IF people come to that belief then let
them do it out of their own experience with Bitcoin.

Because the world we increasingly live in is characterized by one thing more
than anything else - uncertainty!

So don't promise certainty when, in fact, you cannot. And everything
in people's daily life is telling them that 'certainty sellers' are total
con-men, frauds or idiots.

People are trying desperately hard to make rational decisions in an increasingly
insane environment. DON'T BE, OR EVEN LOOK LIKE, AN EFFING HUCKSTER,
which you immediately will if you hype Bitcoin as investment or start
talking about it as if it were gold.

Bitcoin is not gold; it's code.

In short, the only "certainty" that a newbie needs is a sense that
it is extremely unlikely that the entire Bitcoin system will crash
during the few minutes they use it to send money to Aunt Harriet.

"This is why we can't have nice things."

FUNNY!


BTW, Bitcoin isn't dead until the last miner turns out the light...and even then reviving it (or its protege) is no problem. That mainstream media declares it dead is EXACTLY what is preferable.

Organic growth is far more sustainable, and a much better investment, than any Wagner-to-the-moon effect. The market is going to COME TO BITCOIN because of what is happening in the world, not because of any carny barking.

It's all about functionality meeting timing.





 

Excellent!

Though it's a tall order to get these holders on board. Bruce did a 'three-prong' on many of their brains, and they have already moved into their imaginary mansions.

Good comments.

In my post I typed the word power thus: 'power', because I know it's not power that Gavin seeks. He simply wants a stronger Bitcoin, and that is laudable. Probably "centralized promotion/information" is more accurate. However, it will still need to proclaim some measure of authority...which is fine. Go for it.

My main point was that it's not core. At the core is trust.

In fact, in the final analysis, trust is beyond the core thing, it's the only thing.

It is trust that has been blown out and until that is restored, vis-a-vis infrastructure, it's lipstick on a pig. But who is going to make that happen in a serious way? It MUST come from the guys who have benefited the most from Bitcoin and who also have the most to gain from greater Bitcoin success.

As far as I can see, nobody is taking these guys to task.

It is irrational to think that guys with no stake in the game are going to keep falling on their sword, day after day, just because Bitcoin is a great idea (which it definitely is) and they are idealistic. Idealists have to eat too.

Talk is cheap. The guys who have the Bitcoins need to pony up and get behind Gavin with a serious effing fund.

+1

Gavin is trying to save Bitcoin, and that is highly praiseworthy. If he wants to centralize 'power' then he should go for it. But those other efforts will take him off on spaghetti-tangents of endless debates. They are not the silver bullets that Bitcoin needs.

Why? Because in the end, it's all about the infrastructure and its peripherals; no ease, no security, no trust - no liquidity and no Bitcoin.

And, as in other economies, it's the wealthy who can make that infrastructure happen...fast and big.

Easily, the most debilitating force in Bitcoin is the legacy of the Wagner-to-the-moon effect which has permeated the minds of the early (large) Bitcoin holders. They have preferred to watch their stash dwindle to a fraction of its conversion value rather than putting it into productive use within the sphere of Bitcoin development and Bitcoin support for entrepreneurs.

Bitcoin VC/bounties is moribund...which DEinspires everyone else.

The Bitcoin wealthy have a tremendous responsibility but no obligation. Overwhelmingly, they focus on the obligation and void the responsibility. That is the mind of the opportunist, which is fine, but parading as idealists is really no fun to watch.

Corralling them into a serious fund is a tall order, but if anyone is in position to do so then it's Gavin.

-jack

Excellent.

It has changed wildly.

Inflation is not only a function of the supply of a currency, but it is a function of the supply of a currency relative to its users, its demand.

We are currently in a far more inflationary mode than when Bitcoin was at $30+ and many new people were rushing in.

To the extent there is a 'civil war', it is not in the mining nor off in the future. It is in the economics of Bitcoin and it is in the now. It is a 'class war' in the sense that what Bitcoin most desperately needs is its own investors, Venture Capitalists.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45390.0

Otherwise it's just "Bitcoin-to-the-mooooon", aka Bruce Wagner mesmerizing the Bitcoin wealthy while the rest of us break rock for pyramid building, until we're so used up that we drop out.

Bitcoin is bloody brilliant, but without the Bitcoin wealthy being able to see that it is in their own best interest to invest, with major VC Bitcoin, then what I see coming is great swaths of idealists (one after another) falling on their swords for the cause.

Exactly.

The most difficult hurdle to get over is one's own conditioning, belief, in the system.

The cold hard fact is this: JPM-GS, the Comex and the Fed function as one entity and they have unlimited access to FRNs (which means they control the markets). The CFTC is a lap dog. Congress is a purchased hood ornament and Obama is a dupe.

The Fed has, effectively, been the central bank of the world. They want that sweet deal cemented. It is the lynchpin of control.

Silver is the achilles heel.

The need is for a Bitcoin economy. As you correctly point out, the current use modality is that spending Bitcoins = buying stuff with dollars, because the merchant immediately translates in and out of dollars.

We do not have a Bitcoin economy, we just don't. We have (at best) a bunch of people doing arbitrage, in one way or another (and at worst, a pyramid).

The question is how do we go from here to a working economy? There are two essentials: 1) much better infrastructure and 2) engines of use. Both of these require investment.

The first need is well discussed by Gavin and others, but it goes beyond security and scalability. Bitcoin also must have a wide array of access vehicles, ease of use interfaces, idiot proof point-of-purchase sales mechanisms, etc. These developments are moving forward but they are also struggling mightily. Little garage guys are putting their heart and soul and time and money into development. They are carrying the flag as far as their personal resources allow and then dropping dead, used up. How many of them have you seen come and go already? For the Bitcoin rich to simply chalk up these "losers" to casualties of war, and then continue to sit back and wait for some other bright guy, full of inspiration, to pick up the flag and move it forward is a recipe for Bitcoin implosion. 

The second need is for 'engines of use'. At present, Bitcoin is a genius-proof-of-concept looking for a killer app. This should not be, because the advantages of Bitcoin immediately lend themselves to killer apps. I posted an article about that here http://bitcoinredlight.com/2526/bitcoin-killer-apps/, but (regardless of what one believes may be 'the killer app') the point I'm making right now is that Bitcoin entrepreneurs need Bitcoin venture capitalists! Anyone who does not hold a fair amount of Bitcoins and is a Bitcoin entrepreneur knows, all to well, that the prospect of even surviving are thin, letting alone getting "Bitcoin rich". The Bitcoin economy lacks support for the entrepreneur, so he all-too-often drops dead (out).



NO! This is exactly the Ponzi psychology that will only serve to screw "new users" (chumps, marks). What Bitcoin needs is a going economy in order to welcome, and support, new people - as participants, not as new money to pay-off the earlier players.

Do not think, "new people, new people, new people". Think, infrastructure and engines!





No. If we don't have a going economy then we will just be exporting a pyramid scheme. A going economy circulates currency, whether that's a hundred people or a million.

Look, a harsh reality to face is that the Bitcoin wealthy are mostly just some guys who got incredibly lucky with some very low tech, and low effort, mining. Their eyes are not on Bitcoin. Their eyes are on FRNs. They want to max their cash-out and are largely ruminating on having missed the $30 exit. They remain under the Wagner-to-the-Moon spell (like so many others are in Bitcoin). This is a hoarder's mentality and investment in that mentality makes no sense.

The Bitcoin elite have got to wake-up from getting rich by letting others fall on their swords, i.e. until Bitcoin magically makes them rich. The Wagner-to-the-moon effect is OVER. From here, it's WORK.

We need the Bitcoin economy to produce venture capitalists, and in a BIG way. And this is an investment in their own substantial holdings!


Finally, this quote from FreeTrade:




BINGO

This is a remarkably impressive thread. Too bad, for me, that I didn't discover it earlier...caught a 'falling knife', er, driven spike, yesterday (thur).

I will definitely keep checking in here.
-Jack

FYI, here is a recent article from the BitcoinRedLight website.
----------------


For most practical purposes, there is no such thing as an ‘inflationary currency’ or a ‘deflationary currency’. There is only inflation and deflation; there is only that which is actually happening. True, for most of the time the FRN is in inflation, but following the 2008 banking debacle it went into a wicked sharp deflation.

The point is that we need to forget about “…only 21 million Bitcoins will ever be created…”. Ok, even if we all believe that to be true, the reality is that right now Bitcoin appears inflationary, and there is no guarantee that Bitcoin will even survive, let alone reach its 21 million projection or go into deflation.

There is a reason that central banks are powerful. They manipulate the game in favor of the game! Why? Obviously because they have every incentive to do so. And who directly benefits by the Bitcoin game? Obviously, the guys who have lots and lots of Bitcoins.

They gain a direct benefit by every contribution that every Bitcoin-poor make. And if they just hoard (i.e. because the price is “guaranteed” to go up to the Wagner-moon) or if they just keep weekly dribbling out their mega stash to little-stash hoarders who are also buying into the Wagner-moon hype (or worse, to TPTB who will eventually crash Bitcoin), then this whole thing is screwed because the Bitcoin wealthy, themselves, don’t believe in Bitcoin, they believe in DOLLARS.

This is why the Bitcoin wealthy are SO important right now. They are the ones who hold the keys to getting this currency into a position of circulating USE by pumping Bitcoins into the infrastructure and startups which are desperately needed to make the Bitcoin economy go.

Half the Bitcoin wealthy’s stash could be worth far more, later, if they would just pump half of their stash (i.e. some healthy percentage) into the Bitcoin infrastructure now. Mind you, since they hold the Bitcoin wealth, they would be investing in their own holdings.

And if they don’t do it, what does that say to the rest of us who are working so hard for so very little?