And then the 2.75% paypal fees on top.  It works out closer to 14% when selling on ebay.

Agreed.  Currently, BTC trades more like a commodity rather than a currency.  What drives commodity prices?  Production cost.  What drive BTC price?  Electricity and mining Costs?  Right now the hardware producers are probably the bulk of the product sales in BTC or BCC in the world.  As they hold and don't sell (look at the volumes in their BCT and BCC wallets = 10's and 100's of millions of dollars worth) supply drops, as supply drops demand goes up.

My thought is that BTC will trade like a commodity until mining hash power is not needed anymore.  So wait until the very last block is mined (if the BTC devs let it get there).  Then it will start trading more like a currency.

If you guys have been selling miners since 2015, I'm sure someone in the forums has purchased something from you guys and can vouch for authenticity, ect.

Also as a recommendation, I would change the white lettering over the light background image on your main page.  Makes it difficult to read.

And another thing....  Why does it say products "In stock" yet in the description its a preorder item with delivery dates a month away?  If they are not in your hand, they are not "in stock".

What price are you asking for the L3+ and is that with or without a power supply?  What is your rough estimate of shipping cost to the US.

So i've pm'd a senior member a few times and everytime he responds with my quoted text, the name on the reply is mine.  So it looks like i pm'd myself.  Ive qsked him to post a reply in one of my other topics rather than sending a pm, but so far he has not.

Just curious how or why this happens.

What I found interesting is that currently Bitmain is only accepting BCH for certain pre-order batches.  I Purchased one miner and power supply from them and monitored the BCH transaction.  They currently have over 28,000 BCH in 1 wallet (that's about 33 million USD currently just sitting there).  I think they are banking on BCH taking over.  They are making some bank, that is for sure.

The transaction fees are getting higher and higher  They were soooo much cheaper 2 years ago.

Additional question would be how much hands on time do you spend on the farm per day?  I would imagine most could be handled remotely to facilitate off site hosting in a small office space setup as a server room for example.  Just curious how much hands on work you do daily.

I'm curious, is there any reputable resellers on the web or is this just a pipe dream in the mining realm?  I mean other than buying direct through manufacturer or paying the exorbitant prices of ebay due to fees from paypal and ebay, are there any good web sellers?  Second hand in here is fine if you want to go through escrow and use crypto, but if you want to use a cc or direct bank transfer, what options are available?   The two I know of are Eastshore and Holybit.  Stock is limited at the moment.

I think we missed the boat on the "which alt con will make us rich" question.  There are still profits to be made, but not sure we will see the same fortunes built that BTC has created any time soon.

Boy do I wish I held onto the bitcoin I had back in the day.  Was only 23-25 BTC but that's worth a nice sum now days.  I sold out at $300-325.  Guess you can't complain at taking profit, just missed out on much, much more profit.  I personally don't see any altcoin knocking off BTC from the top currently.  My guess is that there would need to be something created from a well established entity to have an immediate acceptance globally to be bigger than BTC.  Right now BTC was first to market, First to adoption, first to acceptance.  There is an entire industry (mining hardware) dedicated or predicated on BTC.  Until that changes, BTC will be on top.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are a handful of coins that have a better designs/fundamental or more ideal fundamental than BTC for world wide adoption, but BTC is too far ahead currently.

Can you imagine if Amazon, Microsoft, Alibaba, or Google designed a crypto to be used and mined?  Do you think that might overtake BTC?  They could make a boat load by premining a bit and selling it.

I've been out of the altcoin scene for a few years now and I'm just starting to get back into mining again.  Just curious if anyone in here remembers the whole Paycoin shit storm, and if anyone else is like me and just now returning into the realm after all that.  I know it's a tough thing to admit, but everyone has some history of those types of things in crypto.  I was in the paycoin forums a lot back then and just curious if anyone from back then is on now.  Oh the ups and downs of Crypto and cloud mining.... lol

Boy do I know how fees can kill sales.  That's why people have to ask so much above retail on ebay.  It's to cover the fees.  Realistically, with current diff, you are only going to lose about $500 in mining by waiting a month (diff shouldn't change too much in the next 30 days, but after the Jan A4+ starts hitting the market, who knows).  If you pay $1000 more to get it now, then you are going to be $500 more in the hole to have to recover.  If you pay $2000 more than retial, well, do the math  .  I have to give it to people on the forum though, they negotiate well.

How about Ebay as well.. ...  Listings across the world for units shipping now under 3k and the seller eats ebay and paypal fees (something like 15-18 percent total).  Ebay tends to have the highest secondary market prices around, so you would need to be under these if your doing a direct sale and accepting BTC with essentially no fees to make it worthwhile for the buyer.  Otherwise, why wouldn't they just go to Ebay....  just my 2 cents and I do feel that everyone has the right to ask for the price they want and negotiate from there 

Looking to buy an L3 miner (the 400watt 255 MH/s smaller version) not the L3 if the price is right.  Just curious if many of these are even available anymore or if everything has just gone to the L3+.  Escrow through reputable user in the forums would be required, I'd pay fee.

OP, Nice setup.

I'm thinking of getting a small farm going myself if I can get a server space reasonable enough ( would already have fire suppression built in and adequate power setup) and business rates on the power here in southern Cali.  Would be curious to know what your first months power bill was at your rate, how long you plan to run the miners before selling the equipment in the secondary market to replace with newer units.

The power supplies are mainly just supplying the power required by the miner, they are using little for their own operation.  So a Power supply for each L3+ would only increase your power usage minimally at the wall.  Plus it makes sure you are not going to over tax the power supply so much that you have a higher chance of running into catastrophic failure.

My take on it

1.  BTC first to market, first to adoption, first to acceptance (yes adoption and acceptance are different   ).
2.  Majority of BTC is still held by few hands/large mining operations/equipment manufactures compared to the amount held by the average person (us).
3.  Large mining operations have set over head in equipment, maintenance, electricity that have to be met, they will not sell at a loss.  Since these types of opperations control the majority of the BTC along with hardware sellers and select other, then they essentially control the market.  They will hold BTC until they get the price that is needed to recoup costs, keep the farm mining, replace existing equipment ect.  When they hold, supply goes down, as supply goes down, demand/price goes up.
4.  As demand goes up because BTC is first to wider spread acceptance, (ie; Those who know nothing of "crypto" currency have at least heard the term Bitcoin), Demand for faster ASICs goes up because more people want to mine to get a piece of the pie, leading to more efficient miners, leading to new equipment having to be purchased to keep up with difficulty adjustment, leading to more expenditure of CASH, leading to higher prices of BTC needed to repay those expenditures.  It's a circle.....


Hypothetically, if all mining were to stop today, and no other BTC could be mined, then there would be no need for the insane amount of hashing power we have today.  If adoption by merchants, ect stayed where it is today, would BTC hold steady or would it drop?

If usage, acceptance, and dissemination (BTC getting into many more hands) occur, then it should continue to rise based on the way any other traditional currency does.  Right now BTC trades a lot like a commodity on an exchange.  Commodity prices vary greatly based on production costs.  Right now production of BTC drives a lot of the market.

Just curious if others or how many people have issues with sending from Kraken to other exchanges or wallets.  

I just started using them for the low trading fees, and then went to transfer out some BCH (cause that's what Bitmain takes atm) and Kraken either sent it to the wrong address (there is only two hops in the block chain so far) or it's stuck in one of their storage wallets as it never even attempted to go to the wallet address i provided, at least when following the blockchain of the transaction.  It's now sitting in a wallet with like 28k BCH so I assume it's a storage wallet.  Am in contact with their support team (which seems slower than other exchanges I've used) and will see what comes about.  $1700 in BCH may be gone.

I'm a bit hesitant to try and transfer out the remaining BTC I have in there to another exchange.  It seems to go into their exchange just fine   Just curious what others experiences are when transferring or trading on Kraken

I remember those days fondly '13/'14.  I only had 5 GPU's and a couple Zues/GAW 55nm asics.  It was decently profitable in the winter time, not so much in the summer time.  The damn garage would get so hot even with multiple exhaust fans.  Ambient temps here in so cal in the summer make garage setups tough.  When I bbq'd 2 PSU's in 1 week, I had to rethink things a bit