Anyone would be a good start.

Chargin.

Hello everyone

Should you feel so inclined please complete the following sentence:

I want Karma to _____ by ______

Example:

I want Karma (the coin) to spread good karma throughout the world by allowing people to show they notice even the smallest of each other's good deeds which will help inspire everyone to contribute towards making the world a slightly better place.

Extra Karma for listing more specific ways people can help Karma do what you want it to accomplish.

For example:
Some ways people can make this happen are:

• Telling people about Karma.
• Posting their sentence of what they want Karma (the coin) to achieve on twitter, facebook ,etc.
• Tipping each other. http://coinwik.org/Karmacoin#Tipping
• Improving/amending tipping guides and tutorials.
• Developing a Karma only tipping network/service like the current tipping system that makes people aware of Karma's objectives and allows people to send each other "Karma" without a wallet but can be redeemed/sent to a wallet as actual Karma
• Developing a Karma only tipping system that is actually a wallet, but all you need is a phone number or email to send Karma and it will provide instructions on how to receive the Karma or add it to an existing wallet or pool for when that person does retrieve their Karma. It doesn't need to be tied to any social media platform (but it can be to allow additional ways to send the real Karma) so people can send actual Karma to each other directly by downloading the lightweight very user friendly tipping wallet.

There are no right and wrong answers.

Chargin.

I noticed that before Cryptsy even listed Karma. It doesn't mean other exchanges can't list it as something better or it should even stay that way on Cryptsy.

Please note I said the name was wrong, I didn't say the trading symbol was. I also changed the trading symbol so I explained why.

Chargin.

The name is listed wrong, it is listed as Karm (KARM). I've asked them to list it as Karma (KARMA). I don't know why we'd want it listed as KARM instead of KARMA, it is just ruining a great name in the trading symbol.

Chargin.

Correct. First page is wrong.

None I'm aware of.

Merry Christmas.

No further news at the moment. The wallet / database haven't been provided yet. I've been advised that Bitwho is working with Ferdousbhai who is currently being held up by something outside of his control.

Chargin.

The current plan, excluding the exceptions listed below, for making the distribution are as follows:

Current alteration proposals (we might hold a vote on) that have been supported are:
1. Use v1 balances instead of v2 balances. This proposal would also mean there is no Round 1 and 2. There would be no adjudication on v2 balances, it is v1 balances only.

Key advantages of using v1 instead of v2:
1. There is less adjudication work on if funds should be paid, the amount can be looked up on the Mintpal v1 database. This means there won't absolutely need to be a committee, because it is simply checking the balance against the account.
2. It will avoid the requirement of giving a v2 password to the people making the distribution.
3. The total maximum number and quantum of claims is known if you go by the method that if it isn't on v1 then you don't have a claim.

Key disadvantages of using v1 instead of v2:
1. People have sold/bought 100s of millions of Karma on v2. If v1 balances are used then people that sold their Karma will get it back again at the expense of people that bought the Karma. This means people could lose 100% of their Karma balance by doing this method.
2. People that deposited Karma in v2 may not be able to make a claim because funds they deposited are likely to form part of the total Karma available to be distributed to v1 fund holders.

Things that are not advantages/disadvantages of using v1 instead of v2:
1. It may only be possible to pay a percentage of funds (% to be determined) in both scenarios. This percentage will most likely be determined by the shortfall of Karma at v1 compared to v1 claims, the same shortfall is likely to exist in v2 claims, if not become larger.

I haven't seen any other detailed proposals with the process to be followed spelt out, I will do the advantages/disadvantages to make sure no side of the argument is underrepresented, I can add advantages/disadvantages I missed upon request.

Actual alterations are:
Bitwho will now be receiving the wallet instead of Scryptminer. This is because Scryptminer doesn't want to. There have been no volunteers other than Bitwho to receive it and he has yet to confirm if he will be the person transferring the Karma.

Update on the progress of the plan in general:
There have been no nominations to be on the committee, which is needed to deal with v2 balances that are incorrect (for example from failed withdrawals). The committee may not be required if v1 balances are used because they can be taken from the Mintpal v1 database, assuming it is provided.

Update on the progress of recovering funds:
The wallet / database haven't been provided yet. I've been advised that Bitwho is working with Ferdousbhai who is currently being held up by something outside of his control.

Update on the progress of the website:
The website is being worked on by Scryptminer with a bit of help from other people. I anticipate this will be ready shortly after the database is received and/or the plan is finalised.

Chargin.

When you log into Mintpal now you see your v2 balance. If you haven't done anything with your Karma since the launch of v2 then your v2 balance should match your v1 balance. You will most likely get your coins back from the process being discussed on this forum.

Apparently Moolah left Karma's wallet on an old server which was going to be wiped by the hosting provider due to non-payment. One of the investors of Mintpal v2 (Ferdousbhai) worked with a couple of other people to recover the Karma wallet (as well as other wallets such as FLT) from that server. They are the ones that currently hold the Karma wallet. Mintpal v2 can't send your Karma back because they probably don't have the wallet, however nobody knows that for sure. This is all hearsay of course.


The people making the distribution are aware of the disadvantage of using the v1 balance (sold Karma is an issue, withdrawals were not working), that is why the current plan is to use the v2 balances. People have suggested using v1 balances because they don't want to provide their Mintpal v2 passwords to the people making the distribution. There may be a vote on this.

I doubt the people making the distribution will end up using both balances because that option makes the least sense instead of aiming for v1 or v2 balances. The original proposal, potential/actual changes and an update will be given in my next post.

Chargin.

Before Moolah took over Mintpal and launched the new platform.

Chargin.

Thanks for your input. We looked at what FLT did and decided the community had the right to decide how their funds are distributed. There is no reason we can't try to do it better than FLT, so you'll be better than 100% except for 1. "90%+ accurate" when comparing total values isn't much of a consolation for people that end up with 0% of their holdings if they only bought in v2. It is however up to the community and we may end up doing the same thing you did.

The site and information is currently being gathered, it doesn't hurt at all to discuss the matter here while that occurs.

Doing it the best we can is good Karma after all...

Chargin.

My request for a more detailed proposal if it were to be done 10% at a time. No support has been given to this, it isn't currently the plan. "Ctrl F" 22 weeks on this page.

Current alteration proposals (we might hold a vote on) that have been supported are:
1. Use v1 balances instead of v2 balances to avoid the requirement of giving v2 password. This proposal would also mean there is no Round 1 and 2. There would be no adjudication on v2 balances, it is v1 balances only.

I haven't seen any other detailed proposals with everything spelt out. Once details have been fleshed out I will add them to the list above.

Chargin.

10% per round is a good suggestion, however that will be a lot of work and will increase the timeframe for returning all of the Karma. What do you propose the timeframe be? After 4 weeks then every 2 weeks for a total of 22 weeks or how long? Everyone please say if you think this is a good idea or not, if you like it but not the timeframe I just gave please suggest a new one.

For the people that are suggesting relying on less than v2 username proof. Are you suggesting we either simply use v1 balances (100% provable, some people will lose 100% of their Karma) or a lower standard of evidence to prove v2 balances? (50% provable, everyone may lose a % of their Karma) What guidelines do you suggest the committee follow to determine if somebody should be paid out or not? Screenshot of v2 and something else? Do you propose that the v2 password not be a requirement or not be asked for at all? Please acknowledge you are aware people may defraud a system where a lower level of evidence is required, guaranteeing people will miss out on some of their Karma. Are people meant to prove/submit a claim for their v2 balances or just go with the best claim they can make? Please be aware of how much work you are suggesting the committee do to prove each claim. If you provide a detailed plan I will put it to a vote.

Everyone don't forget that at the moment you've lost 100% of your Karma on Mintpal. If you get 50% back from this process you should be very grateful to the person making the transactions with the wallet and the people on the committee.

Please starting nominating yourselves to be on the committee (3 positions) or if you'd like to nominate yourself for being the person distributing the Karma and holding the wallet (1 position).

For people that think any information is being sent to me or are suggesting changes please read my entire post including the FAQ before commenting.

Since the start of the Mintpal v2 claim form if you try to change the claim withdrawal address it doesn't appear to update. That means they would need to both fix that bug and make the withdrawal to the new person instead of you. I believe providing the username (email) and password is the best bad option. If you can't prove v2 balances the next best option would be to ignore v2 balances and use v1 balances, however that isn't fair for those that bought on v2. I think it is more fair to give people a "less safe" option than forcing some people to miss out simply because people may decide not to participate in the "less safe" option. My balance is the same in v1 and v2.

The issue isn't proving ownership of your account, it is proving the current balance of your account. Using your proposed method, how will people prove the balance of coins including those bought on Mintpal? The balance can only be proved if taken directly from the source...even then it isn't really proof, just the best we can do.

FYI Scryptminer is currently working on the website.

Chargin.

I believe the most reasonable way to return people's Karma is as outlined below. The most reasonable way to do something is of course always very subjective.

By posting this I do not condone the transfer of Karma to anyone, I'm suggesting an outline of a way to do something that is going to be done in one form or another irrespective of this post.

Round 1:

1. Emails/passwords to Mintpal v2 and withdrawal address/amount claimed (all required to be entered or nothing is recorded) sent to Scyptminer via a website he creates. In addition to this there will also be optional fields (eg for uploading supporting documents, comments, etc). Scyptminer is to be given the Karma wallet by FerdousBhai once the general community consensus is reached on what the Karma community would like FerdousBhai to do. FerdousBhai is unlikely to act unless a general community consensus is reached.

2. Scyptminer will create a scrypt to read the Karma balances on Mintpal v2.

3. Verification emails are sent to the emails recorded in step 1 to confirm withdrawal of entire balance to the karma address provided to the site (shortly before the next step).

4. After at least 4 weeks have passed, the total Karma held compared to claimed and v2 balances should be checked manually, then all withdrawals processed by Scyptminer after he is given the go ahead. Claims should be approved at the lessor of the amount claimed or the v2 balance amount, the remainder of claims should be reviewed in Round 2 (detailed below).

5. After steps 1-4 have been completed the first time the process can be automated fully or processed manually by scryptminer.

Round 2:

First round 2 distribution to be at least two weeks after the distribution for round one, however incorrect balances should start being recorded from Round 1.

Round 1 will miss transactions such as failed withdrawals because these are showing as processed when they haven't been. There may also be other unforeseen reasons the v2 balances are wrong, for example failed deposits. People may have lost the email accounts associated with Mintpal etc. Round 2 is for all the withdrawals that are more complicated or have any issues.

1. People will state how much more Karma they should have recovered compared to round 1 claims and provide what ever evidence they can to support this claim via the site used in round 1. This part can be done at the same time as round 1.

2. Three trusted people (if they have this type of claim - they can't adjudicate on their own claim, have some technical skills, plus access to the required data) should form a committee to determine the validity of the claims and instruct Scryptminer to pay it out if a valid claim is made. If there isn't enough to prove the claim is valid but it is likely it is valid the committee can defer payment to be made until the end of the process if there is still Karma remaining. The determination is done by votes with a majority of 2/3 required. Scyptminer can't be on the committee because he has enough responsibility already.

Misc:
People can nominate themselves (not others) to be on the committee. This can be determined by vote if more than three people would like to do this.

A hard cut off date of 6 months after the site is opened should be enforced, otherwise the process may never end and people with only "likely" claims will not get paid out.

The original 4 week window is your opportunity to submit your claim. If you don't submit it within this time there is a possibility there won't be enough Karma to pay out your balance at all. Treat it as if you only have one chance to claim. I know everybody wants their Karma now not in over 4 weeks but if there isn't enough Karma it will be first come first served, which isn't reasonable. In the event of a shortfall only balances that are provable will be admitted and a payment will be made on a pro rata basis (for example, everyone will get 50% of what is owed to them).

FAQ:

1. Why not just use v1 since not much karma was bought or sold.

You are guaranteeing some people will “lose” based on this almost arbitrary line in the sand. An unknown amount of Karma was bought/sold during v2. This is 100s of millions if not billions of Karma. This means 100s of millions of Karma will be given to the wrong people. The people that bought it later shouldn't be penalised. People will lose their entire balance of Karma if you go off v1. Even if 100s of millions of Karma may not sound like much to you, it is when it is 100% of your Karma.

2. Why 4 weeks after the site opens?

It is possible there will be more provable claims than Karma recovered. Four weeks should be enough time for everyone to put their claims in to determine if this is the case. An alternate plan will need to be put into place if this were to occur.

3. Why “risk” your v2 email/password?

Realistically, it isn’t worth anything currently. Even if somebody has it, if you haven’t received your coins already it is very unlikely they will get it out of Mintpal. Make sure you change your password on others sites if you've used the same password.

4. Why are the failed withdrawals and other none matching amounts being done second? These claims are harder to review, so they will take a few weeks longer to review. Round 2 claims are to be lodged at the same time as round 1 claims, this will make sure if there is a deficiency in Karma (for whatever reason) both rounds claims will be reduced. If total round 1 and 2 claims exceed Karma balance at the end of round one then

5. Why not just get the person who currently holds the funds (Ferdousbhai) to distribute them? He doesn’t want to. It will be a pain in the *** and some people will not get what they are owed because they can’t prove it. Somebody (or a committee) will have to play the bad guy and not return a claim because it can’t be proved and/or somebody will get cheated which may mean somebody else loses Karma they can clearly prove they are owed.

6. Why Scyptminer? He already has more Karma than he can reasonably get rid of. Scyptminer is willing/capable of making the aforementioned site.

7. Why three people to determine who gets items in round 1. So no one person is blamed for somebody not receiving their Karma (they may be entitled to but it isn’t provable) or somebody getting Karma they are not entitled to.

8. What about funds I deposited into Mintpal after v2 that aren't showing in the balances? These will form part of the claim in Round 2. If these deposits were not received in the wallet due to an incorrect address being generated by Mintpal v2, these addresses may be able to get regenerated or your claim may not be provable and assessed on that basis.

9. Why do you need my email address / my password / my withdrawal address?

We need the email address and password to log into the site. Not all transactions occur on the blockchain after being sent to an exchange. Most transactions buying/selling to other people on exchanges don't move any Karma, it is only recorded in the account system of the exchange. You can see transactions sent to exchanges however these addresses are swept and the funds moved from the live/hot/online wallet to an offline wallet / cold storage. This does not represent if somebody sold or bought more Karma.

The reason screenshots and videos to verify your claim is because they can be easily faked.

We need your withdrawal address so it isn't a requirement to have it filled in on Mintpal. Also you may not wish to use your withdrawal address you put into Mintpal as the withdrawal address now.

10. How do you know the v2 balances are correct?

We don't. However I believe they are most likely to be correct. It is imperative to put in your claims in the first 4 weeks so there is a better indication of if there is a shortfall of funds or not. I would suggest 6 months for this process really, however I know the community at large will not agree with that, which is a requirement for the Karma being given to somebody.

11. I want to be the person to have the Karma wallet...

Please feel free to post here if you do. We can also hold a vote for that possession.

12. I don't like this part of the above.

Please feel free to post here what you'd like to change. The number of comments in favour or against the amendment. This is a starting point.

13. I don't like any of the above, even as a starting point.

Please feel free to comment here. Please make sure you post your alternative suggestion. This is a starting point.

14. Chargin, are you going to nominate yourself to be on the committee for advising scyptminer if he should send the round 1/2 balances?

No. If the committee needs interpretations of what has been agreed to or another party to determine if the process is being handled as the community requested or in the spirit of the above proposal I will advise them when requested.

Thoughts on some FAQ's for site.

Why can't I log in to Mintpal?

I don't have a karma wallet where do I get it from?

Who do I message about my claim?

What I do, I don't know if my balance is correct or not?

I can't access my Mintpal email address, how will you contact me?

How are you affiliated with Mintpal / how did you get the funds etc?

Who is on the committee?

Who holds the funds?

Why haven't you sent me my funds yet?

I disagree with your determination, now what?
-Can be reviewed by the committee again at their discretion, they get the final say.

Chargin.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the above but I think the relevant person to follow or tweet is @ferdousbhai for anyone that is interested in what is happening with over 10 billion Karma.

http://blog.moolah.io/2014/10/19/recent-events/

If you haven't received your Karma yet you probably have about 24 hours to get Moolah to process your order.

As soon as the Liquidators take control of the Company, which based on the above I believe will be Monday (if they haven't already), they will stop processing withdrawals. I am not familiar with UK Liquidations in particular however it is probable that the exchange rate of Karma to British Pounds will be locked in as at the date the Company enters Liquidation for dividend purposes. You will most likely receive a dividend in British Pounds or maybe (although unlikely) in Bitcoin. In any event based on what I have read I think you will be extremely lucky to get 20 Pence for every Pound worth of Karma you own.

If it is any consolation the withdrawals Moolah have been processing recently will get the Director into tons of trouble legally. The damage however has been done, it will make no difference for him if he were to stop now.

Please do not vent on the support staff or the Liquidators, it is not their fault. Please remember it is likely the support staff will soon be losing their jobs.

I work in the Insolvency and Corporate Recovery (ie Liquidation) industry.

Chargin.

This has been spammed by defier in over half a dozen threads.

My thoughts on nhzKARM are don't buy it. The intent is not bad and East is a member of the community so I'm not going to pull it apart although I have strongly considered it.

However I encourage people to view it under each of the following perspectives:
1. You are giving funds for somebody to manage on your behalf, East is effectively your fund manager. Are the funds being invested anywhere or somewhere with a side purpose in mind, do you like this?
2. The funds used for purchasing the nhzKARM from East are diluted by nhzKARM given away for free and nhzKARM used for marketing activities. Early investors funds are worth 10 times more than late investors funds, therefore you have free, cheap and then very expensive shares. Will willingness to participate decline at each stage?
3. You are investing in a new cryptocurrency. What's the premine like and who has control of the premine? What is the allocation of the premine?

This won't be anything more to Karma than a member of the community's project. As many of you are aware East has been one of the major holders of funds collected for donations, none of the funds collected previously or in the future without the express request of the person that donated them will be invested into this project. I'm sure East will confirm this here.

Thank you East for creating this large undertaking to try to help Karma.

Chargin.