Es la 4ª vez q les compro bitcoins y todo fue perfecto.

He comprado 20€ de bitcoins como regalo para mi primo.

This is the fourth time I've bought some bitcoins from them, and everything was ok.

Actually, this time I just bought 20€ worth of bitcoins, it's a gift for my cousin!

I like this. Please scare more people. I want to buy cheaper!

Okay lets try this:

PKZVZN6uhHNFvefPnh4vrApzoFiKqvfoFM

Exactly, and secure online voting would be an advantage.

They are down for me. I'm in Europe (Spain).

Acabo de recibir mis bitcoins. Como siempre, perfecto.

Lets simplify this thing.

Once we get the legal framework, we need a seed capital. With it the BTC Fund will buy a certain quantity A to be able to maintain liquidity. The Fund will hold as many bitcoins as shares/bonds issued (lets say it holds B bitcoins/bonds), but the quantity A will be something apart. Whenever the Fund issues shares in the primary market what happens is that part of this btc capital from A goes to the B holdings and that new bonds/shares are issued in the primary market. Then with the money received by selling those bonds/shares the Fund will buy enough bitcoins to restore the reserves of A to the initial value.

In fact the price of the bonds in the primary market will have to be calculated by the Fund so they not only get enough btcs to restore the number A, but to be able to pay the people that work for the corporation.

Am I wrong?

I like giving bitcoins as gifts.

I also like buying things with bitcoins instead of fiat. Also, if I have to sell something I try selling it in btc.

Don't be paranoid, you won't get banned, Anyways I have to say that the black market has to be careful, as bitcoins are NOT anonymous.

And, btw, we the bitcoiners cannot visually support the bitcoin economy with your approach. But we can try to buy normal things in our local shops with bitcoins. So let's do it!

A buyer gets his sallary in dollars/euros/whatever. Then he converts it to bitcoins. Then he buys something in bitcoins. Then the seller cashes out the bitcoins into dollars/whatever again.

This is a complete dollar -> bitcoin -> dollar cycle.

If this was the main use of bitcoins (for the time being, it isn't), speculation would be somewhat limited. It would also expand the number of people using bitcoins. Let's face it, bitcoin is just another currency in the world, a very small one so the main use, apart from speculation, will be something like the cycle I described.

I thinkwe should all create local groups and meet together to support our cause... by convincing local shops to accept bitcoins (and teaching them how to use them) and buying things on those local shops. Meetings would be in bars and restaurants that would accept bitcoins. We should all buy everyday things with bitcoins. If we are willing to buy, sellers will automatically follow.

I say we should start convincing sellers by trying to buy somewhat expensive things with bitcoins. For example if you want to buy a guitar, buy it with bitcoins.

Perhaps speculation will be a predominant factor in the bitcoin economy, but bitcoins won't become a real currency unless people use them to buy stuff. I say we go local.

MM ok I've read it. This is very similar to green address. Well then it's solved.

So why does Mt Gox and everybody else wait at least 10mins and normaly 30mins even for "low value" transactions.

Yes they do. Ask any merchant if those "low value" transactions need confirmation. Many companies rely on those "low value" transactions so they want to be damn sure they take place.

Ask Mt Gox if they'll accept instant transactions for "low value" figures.

Because bitcoins work well if what you want to do is something like bank transactions. But waiting 10 minutes is just too much if you want it to work as if it was cash. Credit cards and cash are way better than bitcoins because the money goes from one hand to another instantly.

The lay man won't accept waiting for 10 minutes, not even 1 minute to be able to pay -in a physical shop- in bitcoins when you can just pay in USD cash or USD credit cards. Until you solve that problem, bitcoins just won't get mainstream.

And if you don't accept that fact, well then you'll have to deal with the fact that bitcoins will not become mainstream.

So if you want bitcoins to become mainstream, you want to be able to use bitcoin cash. And for that you need a trusted third party that will guarantee to the seller that the transaction will take place. And the name of such a thing is a bank by definition. So you need banks.

Hi,

I'm an engineer, also somewhat involved in politics and therefore money comes to the question. I have some bitcoins but I won't waste much time in developing anything for bitcoin because I just don't have time for this shit. But, if I were one of you who actually care about bitcoin, I would do the following if you really want bitcoin to take off:

I would create a secured and fast bitcoin bank.

This is the idea: The bank must have all kind of security measures so that its money doesn't get stolen and the bank complies with the law. The bank holds your bitcoins, and the bank guarantees that all transfers that you want to do will take place.

For example, lets say that you want to pay 10btc to your local shop. You use your bitcoin bank credit card to allow the payment. Instantly, the transaction "10btc from this btc account to this other account with this id" gets published in the public board of the bitcoin bank. As the owner of the shop trusts the bank, he won't need to make you wait 10-30mins because the bank guarantees that the transfer will take place.

Also, you need to be able to do instant transfers between banks. Therefore you need to define some kind of process or protocol by which new banks will get to trust each other so that transfers between them can be done instantly.

In other words, what you need is BITCOIN LIQUIDITY. Then, and only then bitcoins can be useful to the layman. And for that you actually need to be able to TRUSTS some BANKS, with a serious plan for security, banks that follow the law and people who are willing to pay for that TRUST. Of course this bank will need some kind of software to interface all this (and/or some kind of credit card). And of course I would like this type of bank NOT to be a fractional reserve bank.

Once you have bitcoin liquidity, bitcoin-usd liquidity is not much of a problem because bitcoins will be actually useful for the lay man.

As I don't have TIME on my side I would be willing to put some MONEY where my mouth is. Not much, but some (perhaps $1000). And others may also like the idea.

Also, you need to understand that this bitcoin liquidity is the means to be able to make CASH out of bitcoins, meaning some kind of money that can be instantly transferred from person to person. You really nee that if you want bitcoins to succeed.

The problem is you still have to wait to check if the transaction actually took place.

There are 35 million deaths caused by famine every year under capitalism. 17 million people every year die because of obesity. There are 850 million people suffering severy hunger, there are more than 1000 million obeses.

Well, I couldn't care less about what other people might think. Also, I don't see why people are scared of communists, I think most of them are good people. Well, I do know why, because of USA USA USA USA USA propaganda.

I don't buy into the "let's plan all the economy altogether" thing. But the analysis Karl Marx does of Capitalism is VERY interesting and just because I don't like the solution he gives I won't stop reading Das Kapital.

It looks to me like KARL MARX and COMMUNISM are taboos for many americans. Well, they are no taboo for me and I cannot cease to be amused every time I mention them in front of an american. ("Hey, he said SEX, he must be a pervert!", "Hey, he said MARX, he must be a communist!").


- The surplus value is a theory that analyzes Capitalism, not a theory that analyzes communism.
- He didn't invent the surplus value theory, he just made it famous.
- USSR actually worked somehow between 1917 and 1991. of course it was a monstrous thing, but it worked somehow and it actually turned a peasant rural country into a technological superpower.
- Millions of people die because of famines every year under capitalism's rule. It's a valid comparison: most of the people that died under communism died because of famines.


Adam Smith.

There's a misconception between what you get paid and what you are really worth. As Carl Marx would say, you are worth the value you generate, not what you get paid. The difference is the surplus value.

Let me give you an example that comes from my own experience. If I haven't got a degree yet, although I've got more than 90% of collegue done, I get paid about $700/month. When I get the degree I'll magically get paid at least $2400/month. Have I just increased my efficiency 3.5 times in the second I get the title that says I've finnished college? Hell no. So I know that while I'm being paid $700/month my real value is MORE than $2400. So when we rise the minimum wage what normally happens is NOT that the job is killed, but that the surplus value is lowered, creating a wealth redistribution.

I just don't accept the theory that you are worth what you get paid. You are worth the value you generate, not the value you are paid, and the surplus value's been rising for decades so there's plenty of room now to get minimum wages rised in many countries.