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Showing 2 of 2 results by Fuggen
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Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: Bitstamp Acting Very Strange : Heads Up
by
Fuggen
on 03/04/2014, 10:12:09 UTC
I got the same problem. People who say this is OK are delusional and have no experience with large bank transfers. I totally agree with ab8989. When I receive large deposits in my bank account my bank usually asks me to fill a form to explain the source of the money. But that is the ONLY question they ask. I can fill in anything and they don't ask for any receipts or documents. If the bank suspects something they inform the proper authorities and then it is the authorities' job to investigate and ask questions. That is the normal practice all over the world. Bitstamp already has my ID card, an utility bill and all my banking information. It is enough even to steal my identity. There is no need for them to ask such idiotic questions. Now their support cannot handle all these tickets which were created by them. This is pathetic.

At my previous company, I sometimes would be required to send multiple wires in a day, often totaling $100,000-$200,000, to many different individuals and businesses.  When we first started doing this, I was required to fill out lots of paperwork, and even after that, I would randomly be asked to provide more information.  This was banking at one of the largest banks in the US.

What Bitstamp is doing may be a bit more than what an established bank would do, but they are trying to err on the side of caution.  Quit complaining.  Would you prefer they have their funds frozen and stolen, like Mt. Gox?

I don't know what are the practices in USA I live in the EU and I have received deposits of 10k+. As I said my bank has never asked me to answer idiotic questions like "Where did you hear about the USD" or "What are your future plans and activities planned on our Bank". They only asked me to fill in paperwork about the origin of the funds. Furthermore the amount I am withdrawing right now is $6000. I don't think it is so large amount.

On a side note I managed to withdraw all bitcoins I had in there, so bitcoin withdrawals are still working. I think to ask them to cancel the sepa withdrawal and give me the bitcoins. Now I use a local exchange. The only drawback with them is that they buy at 3% lower price than bitstamp. Anyway this is a price I am willing to pay to get my money on time.

I am curious why some people are acting like bitstamp advocates. I remember months ago people were protecting mtgox like they were holy and see where they are now. The fact with these exchanges is that once problems start to appear you must get away from them as fast as possible. It is a matter of time before all withdrawals stop.

I have no particular love for Bitstamp, or any other exchange currently.  Though, I got out of Gox after they stopped allowing US wires out in the middle of last year.  Their problems were obvious, and they need to be gone completely.

It isn't about receiving the funds, but rather about sending them.  When I was doing that with my previous business, I was not required to fill out that information because I was receiving money.  It was because I was sending it.  I was taking responsibility for myself and the person I was sending it to, by saying that I know who they are, and it is being sent for a legitimate purpose.  The bank was just the intermediary, and they needed this information from me to protect themselves.

Now, with an exchange such as Bitstamp it is a little bit different.  When you are withdrawing money, it is only between you and them.  There is no 3rd person that is sending it to you through them, because if there was, they would be asking that person the questions instead of you.  Since they are taking the risk of sending the money to you, then they must ask additional questions of you, because the risk is not distributed across them and another person.  The risk is ALL on them.  At least a bank can say,"The guy sending the wire checked out, so we did our due diligence, and we cannot be responsible for the person on the receiving end".  Bitstamp has no one to shoulder that blame if something fishy were going on.  They MUST be careful, especially when dealing with cryptocurrencies, as this is a new market that will be seriously scrutinized over the next few years.

Also, yes, the US is much more strict regarding AML\KYC than Europe.  The US is the only country that will actually investigate, bully, and try to regulate banks that are not even located in their country.  Every bank in the world has to follow the US's rules for banking, unless they do not do ANY business with citizens of the US.

My foot!

Bitstamp blocked my coin since weeks, and they ask for a 'high resolution' photo of myself together with my passport.


The options I see are:

 - protecting customers acounts against a phishing attack on customers side
   --> anyone could allways phish for my credentials;
       Would they EVER take responsibility and refund me? No.
       Is it only my obligation to look after my system security? Yes.
       Is this of any concern for them, apart from KYC? No.
       In case I've been phished, the hacker could steal my btc.
       So this one would not be a registered customer, but regarding what amount
       would this be relavant? €10.000 or more.  Not relevant for my account...
       Do they have any agreement with me to block my btc in the event they suspect
       me being phished? No!
       --> this makes no fucking sense
 - they are phishing for bio/ID data
   'high res' photo, banking data, official ID, all in their database
   --> this makes sense
 - their ID database has leaked out or was manipulated, so that they
   cannot distinguish between stolen/false KYC IDs and real ones
   --> why not just check against bank data?
       --> this makes no sense
 - it is KYC, again,
   --> why not just say so?
       --> this makes no sense
 - They want to slow down btc export, because they do not have them anymore and
   hope to be able to replenish, so they impose 'security measures'.
   Didn't they say they had a review just lately and nothing was missing?
   --> this makes sense

All options I see smell more than fishy.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: Can't withdraw BTC from Bitstamp
by
Fuggen
on 03/04/2014, 08:19:53 UTC
This is what they sent me:

-------------------------------------
Dear XXXXXXXXXXX, we understand your position and apologize for the inconvenience, however the safety or our users' accounts is one of our top priorities. Since the activity of your account has triggered some of our internal security thresholds the above mentioned precautions were put in place. In order to conclude the process and restore your withdrawal options to normal status, we shall have to kindly ask you to please provide a high resolution image of yourself holding your ID and "[date of submission] For Bitstamp LIMITED only" written on a piece of paper as the example below. EXAMPLE: "12.January.2014 For Bitstamp LIMITED only" We would also like to take this opportunity and offer our optional 2-factor security feature, since it is currently disabled for your account. If you own a smartphone you can enable the feature in the "Security” section: https://www.bitstamp.net/account/security/two-factor-authentication/ You can also follow this step by step setup guide should you encounter any difficulties: https://www.bitstamp.net/s/documents/bitstamp_2_factor_authentication_guide.pdf Should you require any assistance in the meantime, please feel free to ask. Best regards, Rok Štucin
-------------------------------------

My interpratation is as follows:

1. They block my coin for no legal reason.
2. They hold my coin hostage until I send them my bio data.
3. They want to lure me into Google's TFA.
   So, if I agree to give Google my phone number, so I can be localized minimum  anytime I log in to bitstamp, and a picture of myself suitable
   for a face recognition system, along with my official passport,
   they tell me to unlock my funds.

   (I suspect they have an 'obligation' to pass some data on bitcoin users
   along with their history to some special 'customers')

   "Know your customer" procedures have been passed on me long ago, they have
   my passport, my address and validated bank accounts.  So why additional
   'high resolution' photos?

   They ask way more than UK regulations, and way more than any bank.

There are no legal requirements for them to to so, nor are there legal requirements for me to comply.  So I won't.

Their reason is obviously that MY computer systems MAY have been breached by SOMEONE, PERHAPS, and that MY funds COULD be EVENTUALLY stolen by SOMEONE, IF this MIGHT have happened. ("the safety or our users' accounts is one of our top priorities")

They do not have any saying about the safety of my computer systems.  This is only my concern.

Since they blocked my coin, I suffered a loss of about 30%.

In my opinion this is both

 - a breach of contract, because I never agreed to additional "security" procedures blocking my funds in case MY computer systems where breached,
and second it is
 - blackmail, because a) they hold my money hostage, and b) ask for something I do not owe them.


If they do not budge,  I will sue them for a compensation for my losses, and then this company is finito for me.