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Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
I like to become a miner, but what is the mining system for your project?
Welcome! Not sure exactly what question you are asking.
General Mining Info:
Info about the coin can be found on the first page and in a post I did on January 28th (2 posts above). Also, the white paper goes into detail about how the algorithm works if that is your interest.
Quick Mining Info:
Currently Aptcoin is CPU minable only. Mine directly from the wallet.
Simply let it run in the background and collect Aptcoins.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Can you imagine what will happen when N-factor 14 turns on, and even more so N-factor 15? Transactions and now hang for a few hours.
What is your answer?
What is your answer?
I did a quick check of 100 blocks (with 3 blocks over an hour) and the average block time was just over 4 minutes. It's true that the N-factor 13 blocks can take some time to solve but I have noticed major fluctuations in hash rate lately.
The developers plan was for "Every two years the range of N-factor will increase by 1" but that has not happened yet(has been a max N-factor 13 since 2014). I haven't looked at the code to find out why or if a deeper explanation was posted here.
The white paper talks about how the higher N-factors are addressed:
https://mega.nz/#!61B2jKzS!7Tho4XLnTPawRtkdbk6SF9rvn5sNkrN1LQ6NcDEezAM
Code:
After each block is solved, AptCurve will determine how long it took for the last 10 blocks to be generated, and compare that against how long it should have taken given the expected block generation time. If it took longer, we will decrease the difficulty, and it it took shorter, we will increase the difficulty. Additionally, 4 other factors will come into play while making this decision.
1. We will look at the average of the N-factors of the previous 10 blocks. If on average they were high, the actual time is expected to be longer than if they were low, so we add an additional weight to the difficulty re-target in the down direction.
2. We look at the N-factor of the block about to be hashed. If the current block about to be hashed is a high N-factor (i.e. on the top half of N-factor range), we also add an additional weight to the difficulty re-target in the down direction.
3. We look to see if the N-factor of the block about to be hashed is the maximum N-factor value it can be, and if so, we add an additional weight in the down direction.
4. Finally, we dampen the difficulty increases by capping them in a reasonable manner to avoid wild fluctuations in the upward direction should a particular sequence of 10 blocks be hashed much quicker than expected.
1. We will look at the average of the N-factors of the previous 10 blocks. If on average they were high, the actual time is expected to be longer than if they were low, so we add an additional weight to the difficulty re-target in the down direction.
2. We look at the N-factor of the block about to be hashed. If the current block about to be hashed is a high N-factor (i.e. on the top half of N-factor range), we also add an additional weight to the difficulty re-target in the down direction.
3. We look to see if the N-factor of the block about to be hashed is the maximum N-factor value it can be, and if so, we add an additional weight in the down direction.
4. Finally, we dampen the difficulty increases by capping them in a reasonable manner to avoid wild fluctuations in the upward direction should a particular sequence of 10 blocks be hashed much quicker than expected.
The difficulty re-targeting is unique and a little bit of a pain right now with spikes in the hash rate. However, it does work it out and is still super simple for someone to open a wallet and start mining Aptcoins.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Helpful Info:
Currently Aptcoin is CPU minable only. Mine directly from the wallet.
- There is also a stand alone CPU miner but it will need to be compiled - https://github.com/aptcoin/cpuminer
Exchange - YoBit (Price should be a lot Higher based on Coin Supply)
NEW Block Explorer - http://45.32.213.208:3002
(Donations: APT- APgkkrqV6aa7pntepmh5TERSVSJk1kxr74 BTC- 1LJgTxr6gn1y3vQKWSUDmvm7u3HR4MuNoH )
Aptcoin basics:
Project Started - August 2014
Current Coin Supply - 9.8 Million APT - No Premine
Max Coins 42 Million APT
Block time 5 minutes - This can be shorter or MUCH longer. This is the normal difficulty retargeting for Aptcoin.
Aptcoin Wallet Info:
Source - https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin.git
Windows Wallet
https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin/releases/download/0.9.0.2/aptcoin-qt-0.9.0.2.zip
OSX Wallet
https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin/releases/download/0.9.0.2/Aptcoin-Qt-0.9.0.2.dmg
Create config file and add Nodes:
Win7: C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\aptcoin\aptcoin.conf
OS X: /home/User/Library/Application Support/aptcoin/aptcoin.conf
Linux: /home/User/.aptcoin/aptcoin.conf
Compiling on Debian/Ubuntu:
Running a full Aptcoin node:
Running a full Aptcoin node (while also mining):
Checking the status and confirmed balance:
Showing combined confirmed and immature balance:
Showing mining info (your hashrate, network hashrate, etc):
Currently Aptcoin is CPU minable only. Mine directly from the wallet.
- There is also a stand alone CPU miner but it will need to be compiled - https://github.com/aptcoin/cpuminer
Exchange - YoBit (Price should be a lot Higher based on Coin Supply)
NEW Block Explorer - http://45.32.213.208:3002
(Donations: APT- APgkkrqV6aa7pntepmh5TERSVSJk1kxr74 BTC- 1LJgTxr6gn1y3vQKWSUDmvm7u3HR4MuNoH )
Aptcoin basics:
Project Started - August 2014
Current Coin Supply - 9.8 Million APT - No Premine
Max Coins 42 Million APT
Block time 5 minutes - This can be shorter or MUCH longer. This is the normal difficulty retargeting for Aptcoin.
Aptcoin Wallet Info:
Source - https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin.git
Windows Wallet
https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin/releases/download/0.9.0.2/aptcoin-qt-0.9.0.2.zip
OSX Wallet
https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin/releases/download/0.9.0.2/Aptcoin-Qt-0.9.0.2.dmg
Create config file and add Nodes:
Win7: C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\aptcoin\aptcoin.conf
OS X: /home/User/Library/Application Support/aptcoin/aptcoin.conf
Linux: /home/User/.aptcoin/aptcoin.conf
Code:
rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
rpcuser=rpcuser
rpcpassword=rpcpass
addnode=45.32.213.208
addnode=118.126.112.172
addnode=34.239.110.36
rpcuser=rpcuser
rpcpassword=rpcpass
addnode=45.32.213.208
addnode=118.126.112.172
addnode=34.239.110.36
Compiling on Debian/Ubuntu:
Code:
sudo apt-get install ntp git build-essential libssl-dev libdb-dev libdb++-dev libboost-all-dev libqrencode-dev
git clone https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin.git
cd aptcoin/src
make -f makefile.unix
git clone https://github.com/aptcoin/aptcoin.git
cd aptcoin/src
make -f makefile.unix
Running a full Aptcoin node:
Code:
./aptcoind -daemon
Running a full Aptcoin node (while also mining):
Code:
./aptcoind -daemon -gen
Checking the status and confirmed balance:
Code:
./aptcoind getinfo
Showing combined confirmed and immature balance:
Code:
./aptcoind listaccounts
Showing mining info (your hashrate, network hashrate, etc):
Code:
./aptcoind getmininginfo
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
THIS COIN IS DEAD - LAST GITHUP ENTRY WAS 3 YEARS AGO
No updates - no nothing since then !
This coin is NOT dead, just abandoned by the Dev. I've mined it since release. Everything works.
I'll add a summary of helpful info and the address of the NEW Block Explorer soon.
Re: 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥[GUNBOT] Automatic Poloniex Profit Generator🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Does anyone know who to contact for changing an API? Bittrex removed my old API so Gunbot is not working (missed lots of money on the recent market upturn(s) 
).
I have tried contacting Gunthar via PM here and Gunthy.org since the 8th.
). I have tried contacting Gunthar via PM here and Gunthy.org since the 8th.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Try add this node!
118.126.112.172
Nothing changed. No active connections. Help me.118.126.112.172
If you are using Windows, check if Teredo IPv6 tunneling is enabled. This would allow connections to IPv6 Nodes over IPv4. Most of the nodes are IPv6.
Please let us know if that fixes the issue since some people are having problems connecting to nodes.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Synchronized and mining.
6 Connections:
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:2c0b:251a:8469:91ac]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:87b:3432:86e9:68d]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:28c3:8b66:95aa:24bd]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:808:31f3:8c54:d197]:12945"
"addr" : "18.217.89.38:12945"
"addr" : "159.224.90.213:12945"
6 Connections:
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:2c0b:251a:8469:91ac]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:87b:3432:86e9:68d]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:28c3:8b66:95aa:24bd]:12945"
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:808:31f3:8c54:d197]:12945"
"addr" : "18.217.89.38:12945"
"addr" : "159.224.90.213:12945"
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Hi !
I asked Yobit support why deposit/withdrawals are frozen and here is the answer...
Deposit\Withdrawal coin will be available after you upgrade the source code of the wallet. Unfortunately the developers are in no hurry to send you updates
- therefore, in order to avoid the loss of users, the network is not available.
If you have updated the source code of the coin, send us (https://yobit.net/en/maintenance_request/ Free)and we will promptly correct the problem on the coin.
Thank you for contacted the support
I asked Yobit support why deposit/withdrawals are frozen and here is the answer...
Deposit\Withdrawal coin will be available after you upgrade the source code of the wallet. Unfortunately the developers are in no hurry to send you updates
- therefore, in order to avoid the loss of users, the network is not available.
If you have updated the source code of the coin, send us (https://yobit.net/en/maintenance_request/ Free)and we will promptly correct the problem on the coin.
Thank you for contacted the support
I think this is an automated reply from Yobit and their wallet is just in maintenance. I did a google search for this message and this reply from Yobit is posted many times.
EDIT: Yobit Deposits\Withdrawals are working!
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Like I said I have one PC that doesn't ever seem to have a problem connecting to nodes but I haven't really looked into why.
I get the connected peers from the wallet "Help > Debug > Console" and type "getpeerinfo". If nodes are in IP6 I convert it to IP4 here: https://isc.sans.org/tools/ipv6.html and add it to the aptcoin.conf or type "addnode 175.43.121.56 add" in the Console.
I get the connected peers from the wallet "Help > Debug > Console" and type "getpeerinfo". If nodes are in IP6 I convert it to IP4 here: https://isc.sans.org/tools/ipv6.html and add it to the aptcoin.conf or type "addnode 175.43.121.56 add" in the Console.
Sorry I didn't meant how to see the peers, I meant to ask where did you get the new IP's. Did you find them or did the wallet find those ip's by itself. Thanks! My pc's say port 12946 is blocked or filtered. No matter what I do, router wise or firewall wise, they are not opened. But my guess is that they see the port closed because it is not in use at the time.
I gave all the necessary permissions, etc. Very strange.
The wallet found the IPs. However, after a little google search I found this very helpful URL from NovaExchange: https://www.novaexchange.com/addnodes/apt/
addnode=node17.novaexchange.com:8094
addnode=45.32.231.128:12945
addnode=[2001:19f0:8001:19:5400:ff:fe2a:8427]:12945
addnode=[2a01:4f8:201:6211::2101]:12945
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Like I said I have one PC that doesn't ever seem to have a problem connecting to nodes but I haven't really looked into why.
I get the connected peers from the wallet "Help > Debug > Console" and type "getpeerinfo". If nodes are in IP6 I convert it to IP4 here: https://isc.sans.org/tools/ipv6.html and add it to the aptcoin.conf or type "addnode 175.43.121.56 add" in the Console.
I get the connected peers from the wallet "Help > Debug > Console" and type "getpeerinfo". If nodes are in IP6 I convert it to IP4 here: https://isc.sans.org/tools/ipv6.html and add it to the aptcoin.conf or type "addnode 175.43.121.56 add" in the Console.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Can't sync wallet for 3 days now. Tried with 3 different pcs and 2 different networks. Anyone else having issues?
I have had the same issues on a few PCs. I have been able to connect with one PC and not another on the same network. I think it may be a windows firewall issue with certain ports.
Currently I have 6 connections that show as IP6 but convert to the following IP4 addresses (I added them to my node list):
addnode=175.43.121.56
addnode=106.85.217.62
addnode=112.64.217.65
addnode=118.144.20.169
Code:
getpeerinfo
21:55:30

[
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:865:2562:50d4:86c7]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465502,
"lastrecv" : 1501466105,
"bytessent" : 21817,
"bytesrecv" : 23357,
"blocksrequested" : 22,
"conntime" : 1501445549,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0,
"syncnode" : true
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:1c9b:ed08:95aa:26c1]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466107,
"lastrecv" : 1501465502,
"bytessent" : 37522,
"bytesrecv" : 43232,
"blocksrequested" : 7,
"conntime" : 1501445595,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2a01:4f8:201:6211::2101]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466104,
"lastrecv" : 1501466107,
"bytessent" : 38658,
"bytesrecv" : 56858,
"blocksrequested" : 7,
"conntime" : 1501445916,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:2459:f379:95aa:26c1]:52134",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465501,
"lastrecv" : 1501466107,
"bytessent" : 52045,
"bytesrecv" : 39211,
"blocksrequested" : 6,
"conntime" : 1501446705,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : true,
"startingheight" : 224027,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:8e8:ee2f:8fbf:26be]:56055",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466108,
"lastrecv" : 1501466108,
"bytessent" : 12713,
"bytesrecv" : 286,
"blocksrequested" : 0,
"conntime" : 1501465778,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : true,
"startingheight" : 224090,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:287e:596a:896f:eb56]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465820,
"lastrecv" : 1501466104,
"bytessent" : 225,
"bytesrecv" : 11724,
"blocksrequested" : 0,
"conntime" : 1501465820,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224090,
"banscore" : 0
}
]
21:55:30

[
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:865:2562:50d4:86c7]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465502,
"lastrecv" : 1501466105,
"bytessent" : 21817,
"bytesrecv" : 23357,
"blocksrequested" : 22,
"conntime" : 1501445549,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0,
"syncnode" : true
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:1c9b:ed08:95aa:26c1]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466107,
"lastrecv" : 1501465502,
"bytessent" : 37522,
"bytesrecv" : 43232,
"blocksrequested" : 7,
"conntime" : 1501445595,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2a01:4f8:201:6211::2101]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466104,
"lastrecv" : 1501466107,
"bytessent" : 38658,
"bytesrecv" : 56858,
"blocksrequested" : 7,
"conntime" : 1501445916,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224025,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:953c:2459:f379:95aa:26c1]:52134",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465501,
"lastrecv" : 1501466107,
"bytessent" : 52045,
"bytesrecv" : 39211,
"blocksrequested" : 6,
"conntime" : 1501446705,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : true,
"startingheight" : 224027,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:8e8:ee2f:8fbf:26be]:56055",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501466108,
"lastrecv" : 1501466108,
"bytessent" : 12713,
"bytesrecv" : 286,
"blocksrequested" : 0,
"conntime" : 1501465778,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : true,
"startingheight" : 224090,
"banscore" : 0
},
{
"addr" : "[2001:0:9d38:6ab8:287e:596a:896f:eb56]:12945",
"services" : "00000003",
"lastsend" : 1501465820,
"lastrecv" : 1501466104,
"bytessent" : 225,
"bytesrecv" : 11724,
"blocksrequested" : 0,
"conntime" : 1501465820,
"version" : 70002,
"subver" : "/APT:0.9.0.2/",
"inbound" : false,
"startingheight" : 224090,
"banscore" : 0
}
]
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Hey everyone,
If you are having trouble connecting to nodes (I was) be sure that you have these nodes in your aptcoin.conf:
My nodes list:
addnode=45.32.67.42
addnode=108.61.194.182
addnode=50.7.47.93
addnode=199.127.225.232
addnode=199.127.225.195
addnode=199.127.225.191
addnode=199.127.225.164
addnode=148.251.8.18
addnode=50.244.13.30
addnode=88.206.186.4
addnode=78.220.161.122
addnode=76.105.204.52
addnode=45.32.231.128
addnode=175.43.121.89
addnode=106.85.223.223
addnode=106.85.221.219
addnode=95.136.77.92
addnode=106.85.216.180
addnode=71.87.245.119
addnode=112.64.217.69
addnode=175.43.121.56
addnode=106.85.217.62
addnode=112.64.217.65
addnode=118.144.20.169
addnode=node17.novaexchange.com:8094
addnode=45.32.231.128:12945
addnode=[2001:19f0:8001:19:5400:ff:fe2a:8427]:12945
addnode=[2a01:4f8:201:6211::2101]:12945
If you are having trouble connecting to nodes (I was) be sure that you have these nodes in your aptcoin.conf:
My nodes list:
addnode=45.32.67.42
addnode=108.61.194.182
addnode=50.7.47.93
addnode=199.127.225.232
addnode=199.127.225.195
addnode=199.127.225.191
addnode=199.127.225.164
addnode=148.251.8.18
addnode=50.244.13.30
addnode=88.206.186.4
addnode=78.220.161.122
addnode=76.105.204.52
addnode=45.32.231.128
addnode=175.43.121.89
addnode=106.85.223.223
addnode=106.85.221.219
addnode=95.136.77.92
addnode=106.85.216.180
addnode=71.87.245.119
addnode=112.64.217.69
addnode=175.43.121.56
addnode=106.85.217.62
addnode=112.64.217.65
addnode=118.144.20.169
addnode=node17.novaexchange.com:8094
addnode=45.32.231.128:12945
addnode=[2001:19f0:8001:19:5400:ff:fe2a:8427]:12945
addnode=[2a01:4f8:201:6211::2101]:12945
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
Hi there !
IS there a way to know the current N-factor ?
IS there a way to know the current N-factor ?
There are two easy ways to get the current N-factor in the Wallet:
1. Go to "Mining Aptcoin" and click "Start Mining"
2. Click "Help" > "Debug Window" then click the "Console" tab and type "getmininginfo"
Hope that helps!
Re: [ANN] Orbitcoin v1.6.0.0 ~ NeoScrypt ~ Green Stake ~ 3 Years Old
Im not able to keep up my mining or coins, so I'm selling off my coins. Been with ORB since 2014.
I'm not a fan of cryptopia, but will use it to sell off approx 12k. Can list on coin exchange as well.
Looking for .0000585 or so.
Will not sell outside of escrow.
I can list at a specific time public or do something private maybe.
Re: [ANN][APT] Aptcoin★ASIC Resistant Scrypt In-Motion(NM) w/Aptcurve Retargeting
When trying to sync the wallet I'm stuck on Block 10001. Any ideas?
Edit: Nevermind. I was using an old wallet. All good now.
Thanks for keeping this coin Alive!
Edit: Nevermind. I was using an old wallet. All good now.
Thanks for keeping this coin Alive!
Re: [ANN] Diamond (DMD) Evolution v 2.0 | NEW wallet, 50% POS Active
pos not 3 days? 9? but in specification is written 3.
its actual at 9 days min age
BUT average time to mint it will raise more towards 30 days now that the POS diff raise again and network adapted towards the new POS blocktimes
when u able mint a block have luck involed but the rewards u will earn always fit for the coin-age u gathered with that coin pile
so u lose nothing just because it need a few more days until u able claim a block
I normally don't post but this question has troubled me since it was addressed as a "minor" issue. What is the deciding factor for choosing the POS minimum stake age for the coin specification? I understand how it all works (i think i do
but why was 3 days chosen and now 9 days is OK? We are talking about the the coin specs which I don't think should be determined by incorrect coding of the wallet. However, I do appreciate the amount of effort from everyone involved.I personally was excited the POS minimum stake age was lowered to 3 days (I would prefer to it be 1 day, why wait 9 days?).
Thanks to everyone for their continued support of DMD Diamond.
Edit: This is meant as only a question and not FUD. My confidence in the DMD Dev team and the community is in no way shaken and I will continue to support it because I think that is what makes DMD Diamond a great investment.
Hello
If the POS min goinage is short (one day), it means that only
a big pile owner can mint and a small pile owner does not mint nothing,never
br
That is an interesting idea. Could a current big pile holder mint everything if his coin piles were distributed into nice piles that would equal the number of POS blocks for 1 day (or 3 days or 9 days, why not) and prevent smaller holders from minting regardless of their coin age and accounting for randomness? If possible (not sure it is) there would be no advantage to maintain the piles (50%/year) and eventually the piles would be broke down into the same small piles competing against other small piles with coin age and randomness being the deciding factor.
In the end (if your concern is true) we would still be where we are right now but new holders and maybe even potential dumpers would see the joy of POS and stick around.
Interesting thought experiment if nothing else.