I see it as good even for alts.... first there has to be a purge to end scams in this place and salami marketing tactics (partnership with GOD! because i've dip the tip in holy water).
Those who are not scams and offer a product that makes sense economical to implement will 100% survive. But first bitcoin has to become either boring (small gains no 5-10% a day) or enter a bear market. When that happens you can start DCA/ECA on altcoins. This bitcoin dominance brings light to the crypto space and lot's of money but people after they get familiar with bitcoin will inform themselves on other crypto. Just have to wait until the sentiment changes and people want to find the "next bitcoin", right now they are on bitcoin until halvening maybe even short after. I hope you guys ride the trend this is digital coke

Not into price prediction a lot but I GUESS it will go past 11086 in the next 3 hours. Next wave if you look at the 30 min chart. Like you said even if not... this is already bullish. hope i don't jinx it )

Charts are bullish... we already had some gains and history tells us we should expect more.
Sentiment is past hope reaching optimism.
Halving is 10 months away.
Lot of infrastructure around investing in bitcoin already developed during the bear market.
Federal Reserve Interest Rates low so more money as the last bull will flow intro bitcoin.
Stocks at all time high with more and more political heat going on trading (trading affects stocks). That money will search a new home. Bitcoin has it's own way not following the stocks so that would be attractive.

All this is aligning together to a point in the near future. Already started. This does not mean price goes straight up. 30-40% corrections where on the menu last time and will be this time also.

The top? who knows... i would love to hear some ideas what people think maybe a poll would be good. 

I have a suspicion that Monero will go up when people will cash out on bitcoin. maybe good for a trade instead of shorting bitcoin from top, (if you can time it) better go in monero that (i think) will have a steady grow as SOME people cash out from bitcoin into something private. That way you stay away from shorts and go a little longer with monero.

What do you guys think?

Lightning Network, Bakkt, ETF (approved or not it's creating a buzz that starts other things like Bakkt) the Halving, Bitcoin is celebrating 10 years this year and did very good in this time. Very good ROI and no hack! Some people want to invest long time or at least 10 years and this gives confidence. BTC ATM's popping on every corner, exchanges also. Like people say it's just about patience and accumulating.

The use of the word bigger in this sentence gives away that the answer it's in the first option. Enthusiasm about the question and people's interest  makes people use words like "bigger" or other adjectives that tend to stay where the truth is in the sentence.

i will tend to believe that the 0.1 wallet answer has to do with the 0.2, 0.31 and 310 BTC wallet.

That means most probably the other 2 wallets 0.2 and 0.31 are also part of the the big answer.

Very curious about the final answer and about the difficulty of the last one... is there an end date? like one year or something?

Token holders will be able to sell their ICN tokens on exchanges. If trading on exchanges (Plural) stops, ICONOMI will take over and buy ICN tokens from token holders in exchange for ETH at an exchange rate set at 0.0019 ETH for 1 ICN.

Kraken will support the coin on the exchange until the end. Jesse and Jani are friends https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*LHNXc5HYAZX9ifTXIJxljQ.jpeg
Considering this ICN can still lose value theoretically and practically we all see it. Been 13 days since the announcement and nothing said about Iconomi buying back at 0.0019 even with the price so low.

78% of volume is on binance
shy of 12% on kraken

12.10.2018 that's 3 days from now. volume will go down and price will follow. Until 31 December i think one ICN will be something like 1-2 cents

Arbitrage on ICN in my opinion it's a no no.....

BUT if you want to do it place a order on kraken at 5 cents maximum. I guarantee you that will be the last exchange to delist ICN.

Hey Richard i hope that this message finds you well

Slovenian newspapers just reported that Iconomi founders bought a hotel together with two other guys: https://beta1.finance.si//pics//cache_su/sumi01-xxA-5bae203a80e34-5bae203a8253d.JPG https://www.finance.si/8939224/Razkrivamo-kdo-je-kupil-hotelski-del-projekta-Sumi

1 ICN is currently worth $0.39 at market price. Hypothetically, If Iconomi were liquidated right now, you'd get approx $0.70 back. This is without the parity funds and refers just to the assets that Iconomi holds. The Team Salary's, marketing, platform development are also NOT included. 

So we paid 2 years of platform development with everything included to be given no good choice at the end. You either sell at loss or stay with Jani in the same boat where the only thing regarding communication will be when he votes. And because he bought everyone out so cheap his vote will be the only one mattering.

I understand legal frame changed but this is hijacking the project in my opinion.


If someone plans take some legal action i'm gonna donate some ICN to that cause and i bet there are others willing to do the same.

Bitcoin can't be used for buying a coffee and actually i'm not even interested in that kind of adoption. People needed something to save money into. No shitty fiat that loses value something like 30% in 10 years. talking about euro / usd because other country's do even worse. Bank can't multiply it so no " Debt Fabric " there. But the interesting part is that Bitcoin has value because we the people give it value. Banks and people with other interest are trying to put in our heads that Bitcoin it's a bad thing. They keep saying thing like..

Bitcoin mining uses so much electricity (i wanna know how much uses a ATM machine that is on 24 hour a day or the bank, and the people working for the bank how much gas do they use driving to work?)

Bitcoin will never get mass adoption (like i said above we don't need the "buy a coffee adoption" we actually need to get rid of the central banks and all this debt. That said the most bright minds of this planet are trying to solve this problem)

Bitcoin is not secure, see all the hacks!! (nobody got hacked EVER! when he had the coins in his wallet and only he got the private keys. Like nobody can open this door if you don't give him the key and people tried. LOTS of them)

Bitcoin has 0 value! ( Bitcoin is worth all the electricity cost and the machine required to mine it AT LEAST. the last weeks price was very close to the mining cost of large miners. Just like saying gold has 0 value or anything that is mined )

They keep saying these things because we started doing our own financial system with BITCOIN and in the future if a FIAT whale will want something from someone... like any kind of service from a restaurant to a car wash they will have to pay that man in a currency the the WORKER accepts. Even if they buy now a lot of bitcoin the world wealth will come to a better balance than 99%-1%. In time it will get even better because every time they want something from the working people they have to pay with something that can't be printed BTC . Differences between how much something cost and how much people earn in each country will get smaller and smaller because of one universal value BTC. Even when the media tried to talk only about bans and how bitcoin kills people the voice of the people (forums, gossip, independent media) was stronger than what the TV can tell people.

I would say to everybody CAREFUL with the altcoins. Right now new giants are born trough crypto things with capital so bit like Bayern/CocaCoca/Mossanto. Put your money on decentralized even if that means smaller profits. You are helping build another world, a better one. Why not promote businesses that we would love to have around in this perfect future?!  Imagine if a juice was modified to be healthier instead of to make you dependent on it. Or a medicine that will really cure you instead of making you more sicker and in need of more medicine. That's what i mean when i say better with less profits but a sustainable product

Yes i'm in bitcoin for the technology and the profits and the freedom! will never sell my bitcoin but i will buy things from other people with it.

Lot's of Love to everyone who is in this!

These days people decide what's money. Fiat failed since forever and will fail again. over 6000 currency got to 0 after a while. Euro and USD are going there full speed!

The most important 2 problems that Bitcoin can solve are:

Printing money without a end PROBLEM (limited supply)

Banks "printing" digital money PROBLEM, every time when you deposit money with your bank that bank can lend 90% of the sum to someone else, because it's must have only 10% reserve (can't do that with bitcoin because of ownership)

The solution to these 2 problems will give us financial freedom. Something that we did not even hoped for  before bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the best if you're into trading or investing and holding. What you need in trading is a asset that will be volatile but has the smallest risk of disappearing. An asset that already has value because of it's technology.
High volume, adoption, security, use cases, decentralization, limited supply are the main points to follow if you want crypto profits. Again Bitcoin comes first. There's a lot of people who search for these points in other crypto's, most of them in different ico's but the truth is most ico's and alts fail to provide security and real decentralization which in turn scare away high volume leaving them with no use cases. The ico succes rate was somewhere at 93% in June 2017 and got to 23% in November 2017. I don't know the 2018 numbers but with this bear market i would be amazed if the success rate was over 1%.
For most people who want to invest 100 bucks may seem that bitcoin is out of reach because they want to buy a "whole something" not a fraction of something. I guess that's how we're programmed to think.  

The brightest minds in the world are interested in bitcoin and are looking for solutions to develop even further this currency. Why would you invest or trade something else?
(i did not say gamble, we all know how gamble ends if you bet constantly on something that has a very low success rate like altcoins these days)

there's a compromise between speed and security and i think bitcoin should go on the security road. Decentralized, versatile and very very secured it's the way i like my savings. i don't want to pay my coffee with bitcoin  but i want a system that guarantees fairness. Bitcoin it's a place to put your savings not to use it to buy food or coffee. I'm not buying coffee with my life savings anyway. This shit with printing money has to stop. Nobody knows how much they print, nobody knows if the money printed are backed by something or not. Not to speak that every printed dollar calls for another printed dollar (because of % interest).
At the moment i feel like playing monopoly with other people that are the bank and change the rules as they see fit to take my money as quickly as possible.

Life is free, you did not do or pay anything for it in any way and you won't take with you anything material from here when you go. So why not chase real values like freedom and love in you life instead of money and greed?

hold on guys... this tripple bottom is actually the mining cost of bitcoin. it's very less probably that we will go lower than the mining cost even for a short time. Except people who buy low and sell even lower but that's not sustaining. If we go lower also no need to worry cause we would be all in trouble but we will have the biggest support group... The whole crypto community especially bitcointalk

hey guys. i think most of us are still here and i also think low volume means everybody is holding so that's a good base. The level of marketing really got on my nerves now that everybody is talking about index funds and everybody is starting one but iconomi is nowhere find on searches with the term "crypto Index fund". The rocket chat move was bad because there could be people interested in iconomi but there's no public community anymore (looks like we're the only one left). i'm thinking about gathering some people and start a iconomi clone with voting rights from the start and way better marketing. Would be too late for something like this?

I would like to remind everyone that bitcoin is decentralized, there is no owner of this network. This is OUR network. There's nothing giving value to bitcoin besides people and this got us so far. If i see value in bitcoin and i am willing to work a month so that at the end of it i can buy some bitcoin then the richest people on the world who we serve will have to adapt to our currency since we are not interest in the funny money no more. If they want us to provide services for them they will have to pay us in our currency. We've got so far in such a short time. I remember 2009 and the first bitcoin topics on reddit, i saw the potential but if someone asked me then if bitcoin will ever hit 7000 euros i would have said not in my life but maybe my grandchildren will get to see this. 9 years later and here we are finding solutions against the corrupt system, solutions that are peaceful, intelligent and unstoppable. Firms compete against each other in terms of transparency. They compete in offering the cheapest price for good services because of blockchain. We are finally focused on accumulating our money, "printed" by us for the services that we offer. Sustainability is's a word that comes in my mind. Like always they try to distract us from Bitcoin, our greatest creation with scary news and lot's of other coins that could bring potentially bigger profits. They appeal to our greed and the fact that we have to provide for our families and we need the money now. Well guess what? i'm becoming more and more interested in developing technology. I understand more and more that now it's a crucial time and the decisions from the people living now are more important that the people living before or after us. This is a tipping point, i see it and feel it. Of course i would like some profits on my BTC but the adoption of such a system by everyone would bring me more joy that my profits or anything. Predicting the price of bitcoin is predicting the future of human kind. Impossible! but again we we're all here in 2009 as well and we did not saw a bright future in regarding financial independence. Even if you're into something else, everyone should have a little bit a bitcoin in respect to fighting the cause. If you invest 10$ in bitcoin now i can guarantee you it won't get you rich but it will change the system that we live in for the better.

https://www.futuretechpodcast.com/podcasts/iconomi-ervin-kovac-coo-ethereum-blockchain-based-digital-asset-management-platform/ what interests you begins at 5:20


"With these types of new digital assets security, custody is basically the key we all know what happened with some of the exchanges so the security of the assets of our users is our top priority. We have developed our own hot and cold security system that safely stores all these assets and it is very simple to use for the end user.

Some of these assets don’t offer multi sig wallets by themselves and that’s one of the systems we developed. Our system is like this: it goes from hot to cold based on the projected needs of these assets ever being to be moved. The lowest level is a multi sig contract with the highest number of participant or signatories required. They are all over the world and don’t know each other. This is the level we don’t expect to need to move often. There are some additional requirements based in to the smart contract that I cannot give out. So this is lowest level. As you go higher the criteria for security lowers. There are lower number of signatories in these smart contracts for the funds to move and when you get to the top you have some buffers for the small percentage of the total assets that basically insure the liquidity for the platform and these assets are controlled by the server and are naturally the most exposed. We solve this exposure with insuring them. So our hot wallets are insured so we have that covered and as you go lower all of these are done offline with hardware wallets, etc…
There are multiple levels of cold and hot storages and each of them is more or less complicated depending on the projection of how often those funds have to be moved."

unfortunately there's no good answer for the parity incident
The parity hacked library was a incident that should not happen, as we we're insured many times that the funds have been moved from parity wallets after other incidents in the past.

Again binance is a exchange and iconomi is a platform for index funds. insert "Different but the same, but still different" GIF

Binance did the 50% fee discount because of competition on a already established segment (Crypto Exchanges). On a exchange you exchange your funds for crypto and then if you're a sane person you get them out of there as quick as possible and store them as secure as you know and can. Considering a lot's of exchanges don't even bother with transparency it's a very high risk to hold you're funds long term with a exchange.

With the Iconomi Platform you are able to invest your funds in crypto projects. Projects that are selected by different experts who have their own skin next to yours. They re-balance the funds as they see fit so you don't loose you're time trying to keep the ratios in line with the project development. Your investment is not only very securely stored but also insured so there is no hacking risk. Besides the security you actually know and can be sure they have the money they claim to have because of the financial audit. At the moment they have no competition. Not real and not at the same level. Low fees/transparency/nina listed on stock exchange/fiat ramp up/security and so on

Iconomi is way more transparent in reality. Binance fakes trading Volume https://medium.com/@sylvainartplayribes/chasing-fake-volume-a-crypto-plague-ea1a3c1e0b5e and can also be hacked - see the ViaCoin incident.

Putting your money with Binance long term means you have to trust a Chinese businessman/broker/developer for his word. In compassion with iconomi where you have all this security, insurances and transparency (financial audit) plus the columbus who looks like he knows what he's doing with the investment. Given that binance is putting every token that pays a nice commission even scams - see BRD, CTR and TUSD i would be carefull with letting my money sit there for more then a couple of minutes.

Iconomi is a lot more carefull what tokens they list

By GOD i've got nothing with the Chinese people but they way they deal over there it's incredible. They've fooled even the American stock market with so many firms that declared profits even 10x bigger than in reality. They've got away with it because who can get the truth in china? If you look at how binance fakes the volume and you don't see the similarity then i don't know what else can i tell you.

They've made a really bad name on the stock market and with serious investors because of this in the last 10 years. And that bad name can stick to binance too if people will see (i hope) the fake volumes the scam listing and so on.

Maybe you don't care about all this stuff because moving a couple of g's around it's not really a concern for you even if it should be. But for people who want to invest long term and be sure about the liquidity and the safety of the invest this is the perfect product.

There will be no quick burning of the tokens with iconomi, not one as you are so desperate to see. Patience is what many people are missing for good projects to grow.

why not let them pay the whole fee (it's small anyway) ? iconomi is gonna convert it right away into ICN in the near future. Nobody is forced to buy ICN this way but the fees are translated to ICN anyway. We lose something like 0.10% or less from the actual fees during the conversion instead of 50% discount for using the ICN token to pay.
I'm sure Iconomi can do the conversion BTC/ETH > ICN cheaper than is for the average Joe to do it himself. That means in the end it's cheaper and easier for the customer to let Iconomi do the conversion for him, but for us it's the same

There's also more volatility that comes with such a system. Where would be the advantage?

Exchanges offer just a few FIAT/Crypto pairings, with Iconomi you will have access to all the funds with cash and in future buy also single assets/tokens.
A financial audit it's the standard for company's that list on the stock exchange where the big money moves around. In crypto at the moment are no such demands but will come with regulation. A financial audit it's already a tool used in the past that became a standard of security with the stock exchanges. Having that give's us and the investors peace of mind even if regulations hit over night.
These two things like fiat gateway and financial audit are for the index funds to grow and not for the ICN holder. We benefit from the token burns that happen as a result of more money on the platform.

I would say careful with everything that comes from China and has explosive growth. Regulations there are a joke. There's no transparency. No way to tell if the profits declared or the numbers that they give are real or not. Saying that you are worth 10X more that you actually are is first thing in Chinese marketing. I'm not referring just to scams but every other booming business in China. I'm sure that Binance makes the same thing pumping the numbers before they even got there.