Excellent job guys!  I've been anxiously awaiting this day to come! Time to celebrate!! *grabs a bottle of champagne* 

Litecoin will soon overtake Bitcoin in price, and as the #1 coin to mine. Just because of it's incredible decentralization.

The downfall of Bitcoin is of course due to all this ASIC centralization which I predicted long ago. 

Bitcoin devs should have listened when I warned about this in an old post of mine. But they where more concerned about "securing the network" 

How secure is the network if it is centralized? 

My old post, for a few laughs...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119460.msg1286029#msg1286029


-Jay1337

I'm not having any problems at all.

Tried a few withdrawals earlier and it worked just fine.

I've been using this exchange for months without a hitch.

Some other good sites I recommend are Vircurex/BTC-e. 

I would stay far away from Cryptsy. As I've had nothing but problems for weeks!!! 

Once ASICs come to the general public lots of GPU miners will come to mine scrypt coins like NVC. So yes, very good idea! And perhaps very profitable too. NVC is here to stay! 

-Jay

Just for the record i was referring to a few people on the BTC-e chat (who know who they are) which seem to be making a lot of noise as of late about NVC.  

I have no relation to BTC-e.. i'm just a mod.. a normal person like everyone.. i make no money for being a mod.. it's 100% volunteer. I do not represent BTC-e

Again, a perfect example of an attempt to spread propaganda.  

Actually, the first day it was announced i was mining about 150 NVC per hour...(solo) with just 700kh/s.. then everyone found out about it.. and the difficulty skyrocketed..

It's because the diff changes per block.. you must have come two hours too late..

Two hours to NVC.. is like two weeks with LTC, difficulty wise

I am only associated with BTC-e because i am a mod. Just like Balthazar, Abbeytim and Bettor. The only difference is that i have no close relationship with the owners of the BTC-e. I was offered the job of moderator... I am from Canada.. basically i just ban people from chat for breaking the rules... I can count the times i've talked to BTC-e administration. Basically i'm saying that people are jealous because they didn't get to mine a bunch of NVC the first days.. which is what a lot people did... you could have mined something like 10k or more, the first days.. depending on your speed..

All i have to say is.. The LTC community that i used to like, is reminding me an awful lot of the solidcoin community.

I'm wondering if it actually consists of some of them...

The way people are DDOSing.. Attacking other crypto currencies... "litecoin foundation"... i'm sorry but i don't like the way things are turning out...

What happened to our friendly community of the past??? I see mostly trolls as of now..   

I still have 100% trust in BTC-e.. I do not see them as scammers because of 100k coins.. i mean come on guys?? What is 100k coins... nothing..

I remember back in the early days of LTC.. i used to mine 2000 LTC a day before everyone knew about GPU mining... people had 500k LTC.. and 100k was common place... didn't hear anyone complaining then...

Everyone ignore the trolls.. they are just jealous because they didn't get a chance to mine some NVC the first days when most of them were told about it... and they just said "NVC.. what's that?" had a laugh about it.. and went on about their lives... Until they saw it exchanging on BTC-e.. then all of a sudden they wanted some NVC and it was too late to mine a bunch.. Suddenly it's a problem... and BTC-e is a scam...

Also, don't forget.. LTC biggest exchange is BTC-e... they are located in Russia..  now who do you think buys the majority of LTC... Americans?? Think again... You guys think that you are the whole LTC community... but i feel you guys are trapped in your little bubble world... you are very few... i see 1000 people online on BTC-e... and never see more than 50 different people in this english LTC community... So who do you think will mine/buy all the NVC?? 

Jay1337

Whoever is causing the DDOS is not really hurting NVC.. but is mostly hurting litecoin... Next Difficulty Estimate 15.88191791 -- Network Hash Rate 420,410 kH/s 

Don't see why botnet operators have anything to do with this??

Even with ASIC, botnets will still exist. 

If they want to make the same amount of money as they were before ASIC's, they will just have to add more nodes to their botnet. 

So that doesn't change anything for anyone really..

Thank you everyone for adding your opinion!

*bump*  

There are a few things i would like to set straight. I am not writing this because i have a GPU farm, or because i hate ASIC's, or even because i'm a Litecoin supporter. On the contrary, i only have three GPU's, i think the idea and potential benefits ASIC could bring is wonderful, and even though i am a Litecoin supporter, i am only one because of my perceived threats from ASIC, which i mentioned in my original post. Nevertheless, i have mined much more Bitcoin than Litecoin in my past, and continue to do so today. Basically, when it comes down to it, i am a Bitcoin supporter first!
I simply believe there will be problems with the distribution, not ASIC in general.

Ok, so on the topic of distribution.

Intel and AMD's CPU's and GPU's can be bought from many more than two sources! When i say sources, i'm talking about distributors/local retail locations. Even if at one time it was harder to find a GPU, that was short lived, and bound to change because of the size of video card manufacturers. I do not believe that Bitcoin ASIC/FPGA manufacturers have the size and capacity to distribute at a high enough volume to meet the demand. Which leads to my main concerns about distribution.

This concern has already been put to the test i believe, and in my opinion has not worked out as people would have thought it would. My example is FPGA's. Yes, some of you (which have mocked my post above) have made example saying moving towards ASIC is the same as going from CPU to GPU, and GPU to FPGA. The only problem with that example is that when we moved to GPU, almost everyone started mining with a GPU. And when we moved to FPGA's, a much smaller percent of the community moved to FPGA's, and that is with the added fact that FPGA's use much less electricity, and are easier to use/setup than a GPU mining rig.

So if FPGA's are better than GPU's in every way (like ASIC's), why didn't everyone switch to FPGA's? Why can't you buy a Bitcoin FPGA at your local computer store? Your answer is in my original post. The answer is centralized distribution, as well as problems with supply/demand. Which is also the reason i own GPU's, and not FPGA's. As well as many others. Even though i wanted some! I feel we may have a repeat of this all over again with ASIC's.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but i believe that more than 50% of the miners out there use GPU's, and it has been more than six months since FPGA's have been announced/released for pre-order. Back when GPU mining software came available for Bitcoin, within six months the GPU adoption level was much higher than 50%. Which in my opinion shows the adoption rate for Bitcoin mining is much lower when the mining hardware distribution is more centralized. Which leads to to my primary concerns about centralized distribution in my original post.

 It's simple economics!? :/

Jay1337

Yes, wow, i didn't think it would be so easy to make one  

Also, i realize some of the things i say are highly theoretical, but i'm just looking at all possibilities.

My main concern is the centralized distribution of ASIC's. I mean, i can walk down my street and pick up a GPU. Can that be done with an ASIC?  

actually i should have said

 "can only be bought from a few sources"

 

Why ASIC's Should Not Be The Future Of Crypto Currencies


ASIC's are not a natural technological generation leap like going from CPU to GPU was. ASIC's are simply specialized processing units made specifically for Bitcoin. Which i do not beleive is following the original intentions of Satoshi, for many reasons.

Moving from GPU to ASIC mining will not be the same as going from CPU to GPU mining. The reason here is because CPU's and GPU's have decentralized distribution. They are mass produced by huge companies  giving you the option to buy their products in any city, no matter where you live! This allows us to be in control of when and where we get our mining hardware, and to a certain degree, at what cost. (Which helps the decentralization process). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralization

While on the other hand, ASIC's are/will not be mass produced, supply is controlled, price is controlled, they are in limited quantity, can only be bought from a few companies/sources, that in reality nobody even knows for sure they can trust. So what will happen is all the miners in the world will be forced to rely on those few small companies for ASIC's, as well as the small quantities that they produce. And we will be subject to their pricing. They will also control the supply of the mining rigs, which can have an effect on the bitcoin economy that is similar to the effect that the U.S Federal Reserve and banks have on the money supply. I'm not talking about the amount of money/BTC, but when it is available/mineable to the miners. This allows ASIC  manufacturers to be in control of when and where we get our mining hardware. (All this hurts the decentralization process)

People will have to rely on the small quantities that these companies produce, which causes people to have wait for their hardware, which in the end causes people to potentially lose money. This is exactly what is happening right now. Many people are waiting to see what happens with ASIC's, so that they can start buying mining  hardware again. So, basically if ASIC didn't exist people would continue to buy video cards as i type this, which would have meant more profit for those people now and in the future, which would have meant more money in those peoples pockets. This is where the 'Federal Reserve effect' comes in, because now mining hardware companies can control when people buy/receive their hardware, plus control when people get more or less profit through controlling the mining hardware supply. Also, buying ASIC's from a few small companies means whenever those companies come out with a new model, this process will start all over again. More lost money, more time lost waiting for release/shipping.

Another downfall of ASIC, is the fact that ASIC's will make everyone have to 'restart from scratch' buying mining hardware all over again, when most people already  have their mining hardware in the form of video cards, and it is already payed off. Now you will have to sell all your video cards, then have to buy $1000's of dollars of ASIC's just to be able to keep up with all the other players with the increasing difficulty. After that, you will have to wait all over again to get your return on  your investment! Which could take half a year or more, once difficulty adjusts, which should just take about a month or so.

Once ASIC comes out, the difficulty will adjust accordingly. Which will just cause everyone to make the same amount of money as they were before ASIC's. So the question is, is it necessary for us to go through all of what i mentioned above, to just end up making the same amount of money as you were before with GPU's, just a month or so later, with ASIC's?

Because of the above mentioned costs, plus the added cost of ASIC'S, this can hinder the widespread global adoption of Bitcoin just because of the sheer expense. This is especially true for people in other smaller, less wealthy countries. It is much easier to obtain a used video card for those people. People that could be helping to build security and decentralization for Bitcoin!

ASIC's threaten to ruin any anonymity that Bitcoin has left. This is by potentially making it easier to track who is buying the mining rigs through the few small companies that sell the ASIC's. Which could potentially be bad if Bitcoin ever became illegal!

There are also many more smaller disadvantages of moving towards ASIC that are of less importance.

So now it comes to the advantages of ASIC. That's where everything boils down to in the end. The problem is there are not enough advantages to using ASIC, for them to outweigh the disadvantages it brings to the table! In my opinion, network security and lowered power consumption cannot make up for the potential problems that it brings. This is an economy. This is not about power consumption! It will all come down to economics in the end. And that is what I'm talking about. And that is the infostructure that Satoshi built Bitcoin on!

The  Bitcoin developers, and the Crypto Community in general needs the recognize ASIC's as a threat, and we should all do something to stop this from happening. I do not think that Satoshi would think the way these ASIC's are to be distributed would be good for the Bitcoin economy in general.  There are a few things we can do to combat this, like changing the algorithm to prevent the usage of ASIC's. Or, we could all switch to another crypto currency that that uses a different algorithm that is resistant to ASIC's, like Litecoin, so that we can save Bitcoin and our crypto-independence!

By Switching To Another Bitcoin Algorithm, Or By Using Litecoin We Can Save Our Crypto-Independence!


The only options we have now is to change the Bitcoin algorithm, or for everyone to switch to another ASIC proof crypto currency. The ideal situation would be for the Bitcoin developers to change the algorithm, but that does not seem to be what they plan to do. So that's where Litecoin comes in. While Litecoin is not ASIC proof, it is ASIC resistant. It runs on an algorithm called scrypt that is highly memory intensive, which makes it much harder to produce an ASIC for Litecoin. Even if a company would find a way to produce an ASIC for it, it would take at least a year to design, produce and ship them. So it would be our 'safe heaven' from ASIC, saving us from the many disadvantages and negative effects that ASIC threatens to bring to Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency world. At the very least, it would be buying us more time to work on something to prevent mining hardware companies from taking over our crypto currencies. People will be able to continue to GPU mine, continue to profit, once again allowing us to be in control of when/where we buy our mining hardware, as well as, at what cost we buy it at. Allowing the control of the crypto world to stay in our hands, not the hands of greedy companies!

Jay1337

 

Nice forum! 

Makes total sense to me!

Seems to me that BCX is a very egotistical person, a person that would not take something like losing lightly.. So in this way BCX would cover herself at both ends..  An attempt to make sure she would win.. Basically a backup plan...

And now another backup plan must be in the works because of that very reason stated above^^

So lets keep on our toes..

That's what i was thinking actually. And BTW up to 640-645kh/s!    Very Nice! 

Thanks a lot for all the excellent work! 

I've noticed in reaper, if you tell it to run 5 threads it says it starting 10! Don't know if that has anything to do with it??

Getting 630kh/s now   

So i did some tweaking on my 3 7970's in cgminer, and i came up with these config settings..

 --lookup-gap 2,2,2  --thread-concurrency 8192

,
"intensity" : "13,13,13",
"vectors" : "1,1,1",
"worksize" : "0,0,0",
"kernel" : "scrypt,scrypt,scrypt",
"gpu-engine" : "0-0,0-0,0-0",
"gpu-fan" : "100-100,100-100,100-100",
"gpu-memclock" : "0,0,0",
"gpu-memdiff" : "0,0,0",
"gpu-powertune" : "0,0,0",
"gpu-vddc" : "0.000,0.000,0.000",
"temp-cutoff" : "95,95,95",
"temp-overheat" : "85,85,85",
"temp-target" : "85,85,85",
"api-port" : "4028",
"expiry" : "120",
"gpu-dyninterval" : "7",
"gpu-platform" : "0",
"gpu-threads" : "4",
"log" : "1",
"queue" : "1",
"retry-pause" : "5",
"scan-time" : "60",
"scrypt" : true,
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin"
}


On cgminer i'm getting 630kh/s per 7970 @1275/1600! Very good job guys! Just another 30kh/s and you be on-par with reaper!  

EDIT: ok, thanks for the tip ckolivas! I now have 4 threads, but still a no go at 10240 concurrency.