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Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
I've read the stories here and feel sorry for anyone who has lost money/BTC.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Given what just happened, I'm naturally skeptical. However, I have some questions. As far as I know, there haven't yet been a lot of bitcoin businesses being sold. I know Satoshi Dice was sold for quite a lot of money, somewhere on the order of $12 million I believe.
I pay close attention to real world business news (probably a lot closer than bitcoin news). When regular businesses get sold, the new owner gets not just the assets, but also the liabilities that the company has. In other words, you'd be agreeing to pay us back the bitcoins that TradeFortress owed us if you bought Coinlenders. How would you intend on handling this debt you'd be acquiring?
Hi halfawake.
We are not buying the business, it is not a registered business per se.
We are buying the intellectual property owned by TF.
We would have no legal right IN FACT to pay any loans back, this is correct, however as part of this action, we are proposing that we manage the return of loans/ funds back to you by a) purchasing the intellectual rights to CL AND the management rights to any outstanding loans, which would be written into any purchasing agreement.
We would not do this without first getting agreement from the current (depositors).
Hope this clarifies for you.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
All we would ask is that to receive (your share split) you show something from your end by leaving say 1BTC in the system or putting in at least 1BTC in the system over the first month or something like that.
Nooooooooooooope.
thnaks skitchen for reposne.
One less to deal with.
I urge caution guys. A professional (regulated) lender would not start writing off investors over silly insults and initial proposal rejections like a pissed off school boy.
In fact, he would be required by law to treat investors and creditors equally.
Let's see how long it takes for him to ask for additional BTC either through opening your wallets or releasing your CL balances
We are in no way pissed off as you put it , however we do not agree to your abuse or insults and have responded accordingly.
We have no intention of scamming anyone.
We are happy enough to just takle the CL site and the funds can be worked out between youself and TF, if you so choose.
We have an interest in the business model and makes sense to take what is already built, does this make any sense to you?
As stated, we can simply design an new site and go from there with no shareholding and no benefit to you other than your ability to use the new site, if that is what you choose to do.
Again, as clearly you do not understand, we are looking to provide an opportunity for you to secure what currently you don't have access to, which is your lost, stolen or missing BTC.
You are currently relying upon TF, an 18 year old to negotiate a settlement with each of you.
Unless you have control of the books of both of TF's enterprises, you have no way of knowing what is happening.
Forget us for the moment, however do yourself a favour and get a licensed company in Australia to take over the business so that the funds coming in by way of loans can be managed an apportioned correctly to those that are due.
If you do not understand this logic then we feel you may not ever see any funds returned.
Again, as stated several times now, we can cut and dice and negotiate the outcome however you like, what we propose does not necessary need to be the final outcome.
Instead of insulting us, you should be thanking us.
Any "balances" as you put it would be put into a trust account offline to enable free flowing return to those seeking return of capital, all with access to that account.
Thanks.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
All we would ask is that to receive (your share split) you show something from your end by leaving say 1BTC in the system or putting in at least 1BTC in the system over the first month or something like that.
Nooooooooooooope.
thnaks skitchen for reposne.
One less to deal with.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
I've read the stories here and feel sorry for anyone who has lost money/BTC.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
I will second what has already been posted: I don't want shares, I want BTC. I'd be willing to continue to loan my BTC with interest for some more extended period than the 1 month I was utilizing CoinLenders for.
I'd also suggest that TradeFortress is likely not going to agree to give up CoinLenders and take a 50,000 loss. I wouldn't. I know you offering him shares at the end of 12 months. You might consider something now and something later--just to show good faith to him.
Additionally, if you do take over this business and accept the associated outstanding loans, I'd like to request a few items:
1. You provide a framework for a more binding contractual agreement between depositors, debtors, and you. This is designed to make everyone more accountable and accept the appropriate level of risk. This would further legitimize bitcoin.
2. You provide transparency with third party auditing at shareholder requests. Obviously, there are a number of ways where this could be accomplished. I'd like to see regular reports on this. Again, understanding the risk, etc.
3. You provide an appropriate level of communication. TradeFortress has failed at this.
4. You provide a regular security report of the site and regular pen-testing/auditing of the site. Obviously I can't request that the entirety of such report be made public but I do want to know that it is happening and that vulnerabilities and processes are improved.
The above items are clearly expensive in operating costs, but I think it can be done on a time line rand it can be very successful.
I for one, have been utterly disappointed in TradeFortress' clearly bad business. I'd like to request a business plan with more details be posted. Transparency and verification are what I need--I can't imagine anyone disagreeing to that!
Thanks CryptoUser for the response.
For us to take on the inherent risk associated with CL, Tf needs to come up with a payment to us, it is that simple. In fact, it would be those that currently have outstanding loans that would be paying it, hence why we then offered shares to compensate.
We could simply put together a new site that has the same features and go from there, too.
I guess we are trying to secure you guys at the same time secure the business.
The most important people in this business are those that used it, therefore we feel the need to extend our hand in order to achieve an ongoing relationship.
We can provide all the business plan information you need, however at this stage, until we get TF to respond, it is probably a pointless exercise.
We do not need TF per se, we are simply looking to establish some middle ground where by all 3 parties US, YOU and TF could meet to perhaps nut out a strategy to help all and sundry.
Maybe it is too far gone and best to restart?
Not sure, again just discussing at this point.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
Personally speaking, the last thing I would want to do with my BTC (CASH) is exchange it for shares. I Kept cash/btc for a reason, i just made the mistake of putting it in CL
Keep an open mind Gaston. Shares of Berkshire Hathaway, P&G, Disney, AP Moeller Maersk, and today, Energy Transfer Equity have been very good to me.
If EZY Capital/1800badcredit.com wants to upgrade from being a shit loan outfit to being the first licensed/regulated bitcoin lender in AU, then this has the potential to be a game changer.
We are really not interested in any further dialogue with you C10H15N
You obviously have some trouble understanding what we are offering here and at the same time feel the need to abuse who we are without merit?
If anything is to happen going forward, unfortunately it wont be with you.
Please let us be very clear here about YOUR situation:
You will be lucky to see any further funds from TF.
The only way this may be possible would be for TF to accept a third party (yes us) take over the books, and in working with whoever the main spokesperson is here, you may have a chance to get some funds back.
We are in Australia, whereas im sure most of you are not?
As well as offering to help mange the "crisis" we are seeking to take over the business operations we are trying to bed down control so that a) you get as much money back as possible and b) that you can then have an interest in the business through shares (for free, yes that means at no cost) as the $50,000 we seek from TF will cover it.
All we would ask is that to receive (your share split) you show something from your end by leaving say 1BTC in the system or putting in at least 1BTC in the system over the first month or something like that.
Why?
Because for it to be a decent business, we (all us shareholders) would need to make sure the business still operates and gets over this hurdle, to be hopefully a success.
If you would rather not, that is fine too, we are not demanding anyone agree to anything.
If you would prefer to continue to seek your funds from TF and want no further involvement in the CL business, then that is fine too.
We can simply speak to TF, take over CL and give you nothing!
We, due to what has happened to you, are offering our hand, if you cant see that, then best you are not part of any new venture with us.
Someone asked about our name JackMehoff, lol, yes that was made up on spur of the moment and in no way reflects our business. We had no intention to speak about CL or TF until we read some of the posts on here and decided to pursue it further.
We have asked the forum operator to change it and will be shortly.
We have sent off an email to TF for a response, in the meantime if you have any further questions, ideas or thoughts, happy to hear them, but please no abuse or we will simply walk away.
Re: Is Bitcoin a Pyramid or Ponzi scheme & what are the ramifications?
So what back twitter? If everybody wants to sell their tweeter stock, what would be the value of a tweeter stock?
I wrote on page 1:
4. ... This is why ponzi schemes are so incredibly evil and dangerous. This is different from a stock, because a stock has intrinsic value to due earnings, profit, cash-on-hand, talent of management, talent of employees, contracts, etc..
Tweeter as more debt than asset then would the value be 0 as your exemple sugest? Clearly not. A tweeter bond would have NO value as if nobody sells, nobody buys!
Would tweeter stop to be if nobody was
Willing to buy a tweeter bond? No idea, maybe
Would tweeter stop to be if nobody was
Willing to buy a tweeter bond? No idea, maybe
Investors see value in their existing software. That have a huge codebase already.
Their huge userbase which can be marketed to, because Twitter is not decentralized. You can't market to Bitcoin users from the public ledger.
Etc..
No way for Bitcoin to generate an income. It must be a currency, else it has no intrinsic value.
You assume that Bitcoins are actually/ will be mined to be spent.
One would argue by recent hoarding by Chinese, Bitcoins will end up more like a digital gold, a wealth hoarder, a finite supply yet ability to transact at low cost, so with built in benefits.
Gold has no intrinsic value either per se, it is not valued by how much electricity it conducts, however for something to have intrinsic value, it needs to carry moral value first, imo.
You could argue the mere fact the bitcoin has no interference from the Government (at this stage) that it morally has substance, therefore it does have intrinsic value to the current holder/hoarder.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
Appears to be a relatively new high risk loan provider out of Adelaide dba Ezy Capital. The only name associated with the operation is Matthew Watts.
Definitely registered with the Australian securities and investment commission as a credit/mortgage provider.
Sketchy, but a lot more transparent than TF.
Not apologizing yet, but I am listening.
Definitely registered with the Australian securities and investment commission as a credit/mortgage provider.
Sketchy, but a lot more transparent than TF.
Not apologizing yet, but I am listening.
We have been operating since 2006, so I wouldn't say "relatively new" .
Yes, we provide finance to those that do not meet the usual red tape of banks.
It is not what we would deem sketchy, but each to their own.
Until we can get any word from TF with any form of acceptance or otherwise to initial terms, we could just be wasting our time in any event.
We are just an option for you to consider gioven the current predicament.
Maybe some of you could try a similar approach to TF without us, that is fine too.
Yes the commencement date states 2010 as all Australian credit licences due to a new credit code framewrok, started in 2010.
The company has been operating since 2006.
Credit Licensee - WATTS NATIONAL PTY LTD 388144
Name: WATTS NATIONAL PTY LTD
Licence Number: 388144
Status: Current
ACN: 118 207 506
Commenced: 15/12/2010
Addresses
Principal Business Address: 'Westpac House' Level 30, 91 King William Street, ADELAIDE SA 5000
Trading Name(s)
Name: EZY CAPITAL
Commenced: 15/12/2010
Scheme: Credit Ombudsman Service Ltd
Membership Number: 409426
Commenced: 10/09/2010
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
Did TF reached out to you yet?
I think some of the Coinlender and Inputs members are putting a bounty on him.
No not at all yet.
Fair call, albeit implying we may be also be a con is a little uncalled for, however understand your resentment due to the past.
All credentials will be happily provided during any due diligence process.
We are simply looking to provide an alternative way forward that will provide current or past users the opportunity of redemption in some small way. As we are a registered credit lender one would hope that would eventually, if not from the outset, give a little more credence to previous users of the service.
It may be we simply provide a similar service without TF input, there certainly is that option available to us.
However, having the skeleton already built one can understand it makes some sense to use that as the basis of the next operation.
TF...if you are reading, please feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further, as without your direct input we are not going to get too far with our offering.
I think some of the Coinlender and Inputs members are putting a bounty on him.
No not at all yet.
The last thing I am going to do is step from one long con into another.
I will no longer do business with anonymous individuals/companies or with any company in which tradefortress is in any way involved.
I will no longer do business with anonymous individuals/companies or with any company in which tradefortress is in any way involved.
Fair call, albeit implying we may be also be a con is a little uncalled for, however understand your resentment due to the past.
All credentials will be happily provided during any due diligence process.
We are simply looking to provide an alternative way forward that will provide current or past users the opportunity of redemption in some small way. As we are a registered credit lender one would hope that would eventually, if not from the outset, give a little more credence to previous users of the service.
It may be we simply provide a similar service without TF input, there certainly is that option available to us.
However, having the skeleton already built one can understand it makes some sense to use that as the basis of the next operation.
TF...if you are reading, please feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further, as without your direct input we are not going to get too far with our offering.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
...implying we may be also be a con is a little uncalled for...
You must be new here.
Full verifiable dox on you and your "licensed company" right here, right now and I will apologize. If you and your company pass the background check, I'll consider signing up.
Please feel free to check us out:
https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/ProfessionalRegisters.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=10koh0cg2i_4
Put in the licence number 388144
choose "credit licensee" from the dropdown box.
Please let me know if this does not work for any reason.
I am one of the founding directors.
We are also a large Australian credit provider to clients who have had previous bad credit.
Our website can be found here 1800badcredit.com.au to which you will also see our recent awards received in 2011 and 2012.
Thanks.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
The last thing I am going to do is step from one long con into another.
I will no longer do business with anonymous individuals/companies or with any company in which tradefortress is in any way involved.
I will no longer do business with anonymous individuals/companies or with any company in which tradefortress is in any way involved.
Fair call, albeit implying we may be also be a con is a little uncalled for, however understand your resentment due to the past.
All credentials will be happily provided during any due diligence process.
We are simply looking to provide an alternative way forward that will provide current or past users the opportunity of redemption in some small way. As we are a registered credit lender one would hope that would eventually, if not from the outset, give a little more credence to previous users of the service.
It may be we simply provide a similar service without TF input, there certainly is that option available to us.
However, having the skeleton already built one can understand it makes some sense to use that as the basis of the next operation.
TF...if you are reading, please feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further, as without your direct input we are not going to get too far with our offering.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
Please provide your email, and cell number so that we can contact you.
I can help to mediate this situation too if needed.
I'm still waiting for my 76 BTC to be returned by TF and it would be a shame if CL was to close down due to hacks.
Hi ninjaboon
I have just provided a forum member with our credit licence details to be confirmed.
At this point Ill ask that that person, once comfortable that he says we are who we say we are, that he state this to the forum.
Please understand i can not just provide a cell phone number and email address over an open forum at this stage.
I can help to mediate this situation too if needed.
I'm still waiting for my 76 BTC to be returned by TF and it would be a shame if CL was to close down due to hacks.
Hi ninjaboon
I have just provided a forum member with our credit licence details to be confirmed.
At this point Ill ask that that person, once comfortable that he says we are who we say we are, that he state this to the forum.
Please understand i can not just provide a cell phone number and email address over an open forum at this stage.
I've read the stories here and feel sorry for anyone who has lost money/BTC.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Re: Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme & what are the ramifications?
"no intrinsic value if is not a currency"
The Department of Justice said Bitcoins can be legal means of exchange at a U.S. Senate committee hearing, boosting prospects for wider acceptance of the virtual currency.
Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs meets on virutal currencies in Washington. U.S. Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat from Delaware, the Treasury Department's Jennifer Calvery, the Justice Department's Mythili Raman, and Bitcoin Foundation Inc.'s Patrick Murck comment. (Excerpts. Source: Bloomberg)
Enlarge image Bitcoins
We all recognize that virtual currencies, in and of themselves, are not illegal, Mythili Raman, acting assistant attorney general at the Justice Departments criminal division, said at the hearing.
Seems the assistant attorney general believes it is a currency, therefore can not be part a ponzi scheme by definition.
The Department of Justice said Bitcoins can be legal means of exchange at a U.S. Senate committee hearing, boosting prospects for wider acceptance of the virtual currency.
Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs meets on virutal currencies in Washington. U.S. Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat from Delaware, the Treasury Department's Jennifer Calvery, the Justice Department's Mythili Raman, and Bitcoin Foundation Inc.'s Patrick Murck comment. (Excerpts. Source: Bloomberg)
Enlarge image Bitcoins
We all recognize that virtual currencies, in and of themselves, are not illegal, Mythili Raman, acting assistant attorney general at the Justice Departments criminal division, said at the hearing.
Seems the assistant attorney general believes it is a currency, therefore can not be part a ponzi scheme by definition.
Re: CoinLenders Script :: Bitcoin Bank (Borrow+Deposit) Software :: Demo Available
I've read the stories here and feel sorry for anyone who has lost money/BTC.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Anyway....Some quick background on us:
We, and not (TF or coinlender) are part of a company with an "Australian Credit Providers Licence" (allows us to provide credit/LOANS) and we would like to make the following commentary to those affected or otherwise by the coinlender saga.
We believe the coinlender business has/had merit, with albeit inept execution/security floors.
For this reason we wish to speak to you that have lost funds using this system, to get your reactions to our request/proposition, before any formal commitment from our end.
As an Australian company we feel that if we can offer our assistance then we will do so.
So here are the initial thought/requests to consider/debate/chat about.
1. We would like to request to negotiate with TF to purchase coinlender/TF database/website and all intellectual property/domains etc and take over management of the current loans.
2. The cost to us will be $0, in fact we want $50,000 or 100 BTC from TF, to buy it and manage it from TF.
3. The $50,000 will be used to a) setup a company owning the intellectual property and b) issue shares in the new company to be split among both our company and that of you that lost money/BTC, along with some funds towards manegemnt of the current/new loans.
2. TF to work with us for up to say 12 months (at no cost) on an ad hoc basis as needed to benefit the site/business. This will include a shareholding to him at the conclusion of 12 months, if we (collectively) so choose to do so based on his 12 months help.
3. Anyone who has lost funds/BTC will be rewarded by holding shares in the company in some way by using the service again (unsure at this point what that will be, but some form of monetary reward for commitment back to the site. You have to commit, make BTC available to receive shares. (unsure how this will work at this point but just a comment for now)
4. We would keep similar functionality and business concept with some required changes.
5. We are to be provided a complete breakdown by TF as to who has lost what amount so that we can make sure those that have been affected receive a shareholding.
6. Shareholders to receive dividends prorated each year.
Could go on forever, but in essence, we will take the inherent risk associated with buying a website/IP with a tarnished name with the acceptance of terms to the above by TF (we are negotiable) but more importantly it must be acceptable to the majority of you.
This by no means stops any action by you against TF for lost BTC, however we are trying to help you move forward in the meantime with this proposal/idea/concept.
PS: We personally do not believe TF is/was a scammer, however that is a moot point at this stage, the important thing is to find a solution to move forward that can benefit all past users/ new users and Bitcoin.
Happy to take questions/ ideas/ comments by any of you or TF.
Mtgox also has no address, no ownership details, nothing.
I understand the anonymity of bitcoins, but should an exchange not have some form of proof of ownership, address etc?
Its a lot of trust to put into a place you are depositing cash/ coins?
Ive heard it is headquarters are in Russia, Bulgaria and Japan, so who really knows?
I understand the anonymity of bitcoins, but should an exchange not have some form of proof of ownership, address etc?
Its a lot of trust to put into a place you are depositing cash/ coins?
Ive heard it is headquarters are in Russia, Bulgaria and Japan, so who really knows?
OK, as much as I loathe Gox this post is just ignorant FUD
we all know exactly who and where they are you fool
Thats a great response, so who are they and where are they from?
Mtgox also has no address, no ownership details, nothing.
I understand the anonymity of bitcoins, but should an exchange not have some form of proof of ownership, address etc?
Its a lot of trust to put into a place you are depositing cash/ coins?
Ive heard it is headquarters are in Russia, Bulgaria and Japan, so who really knows?
I understand the anonymity of bitcoins, but should an exchange not have some form of proof of ownership, address etc?
Its a lot of trust to put into a place you are depositing cash/ coins?
Ive heard it is headquarters are in Russia, Bulgaria and Japan, so who really knows?
However in saying that, my understanding is there have been some large investments in an exchange or 2 tailored to both bitcoin and altoin types of currency, one namely ibit?
One may or could assume that if say the top 20 crypto currencies are then listed they would all have some chance of going up in value against the Daddy bitcoin?
I guess bitcoin itself has first mover advantage, but one can visualise a place for the other altcoins, ever for the sake of giving bitcoin competition for one and enabling traders and the like to jump in and out of each at free will for variety and to take positions.
Just a thought.
One may or could assume that if say the top 20 crypto currencies are then listed they would all have some chance of going up in value against the Daddy bitcoin?
I guess bitcoin itself has first mover advantage, but one can visualise a place for the other altcoins, ever for the sake of giving bitcoin competition for one and enabling traders and the like to jump in and out of each at free will for variety and to take positions.
Just a thought.
Re: Can Foreigners Open a Bank Account in China? Bounty for best answer.
Bank of China Guangzhou Zhujiang Sub-branch, 020-81542003, Development Center, No. 3, Linjiang Avenue, Guangzhou City
The minimum deposit amount of RMB current deposit is RMB1.00, and the minimum deposit amount of foreign currency current deposit is not less the value of foreign current that is equivalent to RMB20.00.
Hope this helps.
16VnUFsxoV2uaTXLmXzQWdrrY1TEsytaor
The minimum deposit amount of RMB current deposit is RMB1.00, and the minimum deposit amount of foreign currency current deposit is not less the value of foreign current that is equivalent to RMB20.00.
Hope this helps.
16VnUFsxoV2uaTXLmXzQWdrrY1TEsytaor
Re: Can Foreigners Open a Bank Account in China? Bounty for best answer.
Hi Buffett
The best is to look for the Bank of China - and together with yr passport and local rmb currency to open a savings account - and u will get your ATM card instantly, and the savings book. However though, there is one thing - which is that the bank would require a local address (which u can actually use the hotel address u r in - just the road address minus the name of the hotel). Its best that u use Bank of China as it have its branches all over China - and even some overseas branches too and is the leading Bank.
The best is to look for the Bank of China - and together with yr passport and local rmb currency to open a savings account - and u will get your ATM card instantly, and the savings book. However though, there is one thing - which is that the bank would require a local address (which u can actually use the hotel address u r in - just the road address minus the name of the hotel). Its best that u use Bank of China as it have its branches all over China - and even some overseas branches too and is the leading Bank.