Hi,

Similar to a recently asked "max number of coins per transaction" question, I'm asking about the theoretical "min number," for a specific reason. This may have been discussed already but I was unable to find anything in the search results.

Before someone says 1e-8 BTC, I want to know what it would take to send 0 BTC. No tiny numbers at the end. My idea (again, others probably thought of this, too) is to send 0 BTC + Mining Fee to a recipient's address with valuable content in the comments.

The comments could contain valuable plaintext like an order request, a promise to fulfill an agreement and likewise a return agreement (a contract), or it could contain arguments for some add-on protocol. I think there is value in creating public, irreversible communications, like contracts.

Would there be too many problems with this kind of transaction? Should I wait for a BitContract project?

Thanks!

I would really like to hear many expert opinions on this in general, but I also have one idea of my own. The idea I have for a large scale attack could start after collecting data from ISPs or specific targets like Blockchain.info by gathering which IP addresses visit specific wallet balance pages or transactions pages.

For example I think it's highly likely that the first IP address to view a wallet balance after a transaction is the owner of that wallet, especially if that page was found by querying the full address completely, as opposed to clicking through the recent transaction feeds which any bystander may do. I am making an assumption that enough individuals using BTC visit Blockchain.info or the few major blockchain websites.

The next assumption is that some entity with all that data could then use it to harass, hack, or press 'legal' charges on the individuals. So, is this a possible threat? Or are there more effective attack strategies?

You never know until you advertise on craigslist or Localbitcoin, or even just bring it up in conversation with someone. Family, coworkers, some guy. So far total I've earned in exchanges is less than a 20 FRN. I hope more hotbeds keep popping up.

I charge 1% on top of Coinbase's 1% (my primary source). Keeps it simple and is priced above Coinbase and below Cashintocoins.com and Localbitcoin. And customers don't have to do sales at banks with security cameras or give their life history to Coinbase.

It definitely doesn't pay. Barely covers gas and time to meet But, on the plus side I make so little the IRS would laugh if I reported earnings. The real value, of course, is connecting with people locally. You'll be surprised how many there are.

There has been centuries of discussions on price fixing. It won't work in the sense that your goal is to provide everyone with a simple conversion and forecasted value equation. It would require traders to act as a cartel voluntarily, and there would eventually be a shortage on one side or another, either BTC or goods sold for BTC. So it could never be tested, and if it were tested it'd fail.

I think BTC is "hyperdeflating" and is extremely sensitive to people's valuation of it over the long term. I have full confidence it will win out gradually, voluntarily, or suddenly in the bad case of fiat hyperinflation. But my valuation alone means extremely little in determining a price for BTC. BTC will beat gold/silver after the almighty dollar bc it's transparent, honest electronic record keeping is already in place. Metals banks and exchanges would have to establish and build trust slowly, and only after major legal changes (or fiat crash).

I agree, the same pressure would impact both, but people at some point or another will have to make the sacrifice to encourage BTC sales, by which I mean setting up point-of-sale technology and ultimately discount for BTC. An effective tax through licensing BTC exchanges would (forcefully) impose a discount for BTC "buyers" who barter for it at lower rates than the exchanges. For example, a web developer who also wants BTC for herself could either 1) take her USD earnings and pay the added cost of revealing her identity to licensed exchanges or 2) pay the added cost / forfeit the potential gain of USD sales in order to sell her product for the BTC she desires. This is the phenomenon that would create a difference between BTC "sellers" and "buyers." A BTC "seller" would be able to acquire the web development at a lower cost with BTC.

Merchants will have to make this decision voluntarily in hopes of establishing themselves in the BTC market in the future, or, if regulation were imposed, to simply acquire BTC. If they don't choose to discount their goods in BTC, this is an indication they are relatively satisfied with their fiat based revenue. In which case, fine. Ultimately, the free market will always win out. The other scenario is driven by the crash of fiat. In which case BTC "buyers" refuse to accept fiat for any good or service and only accept BTC. This, on a whole, is very very bad bc so many people who have fiat stored are essentially broke if their fiat acquires nothing. This is of no fault to anyone but the fiat managers who destroyed their own currency. However, that scenario also drags down everyone else, even BTC based producers bc there is less demand volume bc BTC penetration was not encouraged earlier on by BTC based producers.

Another way of simply restating my original message "bitcoin needs regulation" is "Bitcoin is a threat to fiat currencies. If fiat managers do nothing to hamper bitcoin and protect their fiat then they are only increasing the potential of destruction of their fiat currencies, which is a real loss that will affect everyone, BTC economy included." Absent any rational effort by the Fed/USG to protect their own interests and the interests of USD holders, it would be wise for BTC producers to take steps to encourage their customers to adopt Bitcoin in order to be in a better position when fiat finally implodes. I think Bernanke's reckless wind up of a massive hyperinflation potential aligns with the apparent inaction against Bitcoin. It is intentionally designed for maximum destruction.

Ha ha! Fair enough, I guess, although I did provide a little more to explain my opinions than you did yours.

I hope anyone who reads my first comment under this topic sees I am in no way for federal regulation, or any coercion or violence of any kind. This is almost tongue in cheek, but I do wonder if it wouldn't help. Please help me, how much BTC volume per day do you consume or produce? And I am purposely excluding fiat exchanges and savings. How does that compare to your fiat volume? Do you see what I'm getting at? Something that motivates BTC users to go extra lengths to use it for production and consumption in place of fiat would benefit.

I really think the bitcoin economy would benefit a year or two from now if federal regulators "cracked down" on it and required licensing to buy/sell USD for BTC. Why? Restrictions between BTC and USD would foster more BTC based production (natural resources, goods and services) even if costs currently favoured USD production because producers *want* BTC for the long run and can't acquire it anonymously through USD exchanges. Plus BTC thrives wherever people want to do private business *privately.* Conversely, if federal and state drug laws were abolished that would temporarily set back some valued BTC utility. Of course, USD inflation will probably be the final driver for BTC.

For the record, as of 12/17 7:30PM PST, the full 3.0 BTC were returned by the other party (that was awhile ago) and no response from Coinbase. Beware Coinbase's wallet client.

Thanks, I'll look into WoT. I'm currently working on a local face-to-face network, and a bit of hope here, my contact returned my message and said he would return them the next day. I'll believe it when I see it.

But, back to Coinbase. Obviously the pending transactions did get confirmed. Noo! I have had no response from them in almost 24 hours, but I expect them to take a day or two from past experience.

I'm basically just blowing off steam, here. Figured some others may want to join.

4 hours ago I was trying to complete a 1.5 BTC transaction with another party from my Coinbase app which has built in wallets. Oddly, I got an error message saying error, it could not be sent. So I tried again. No luck so I scrounged up 1.5 BTC I luckily stored on another mobile wallet (risky stuff, I know). Well, 3 hours later I open Coinbase and see two 1.5 pending transactions had just started, destined for the same address from earlier. I'm hoping the other party is honest enough to return it. Hmmm.

I get worried when basic software makes such huge mistakes like this and inothers in Coinbase's app.

jbab and RealT, I understand your concerns. I just started a month ago and luckily found a mining rig seller on Craigslist. Met him for coffee and picked his brain for 2 hours. There is a lot of advice to be given in order for "regular" folks like us to get in. Fortunately for me I got up to speed in time to buy at $140 (imagine $10!).

I think there is plenty of Bits to be earned by some savvy miners or traders who seek out local consultation customers, personal and business. People are curious and they need someone to explain how it works, in person. I started an earlier post and I'm currently gathering resources to sell to merchants and hopefully empower merchants to promote and bring in their customers.

As cool as it is to see $200/BTC, the # of users needs to accelerate. With smart phone apps and low cost transactions, BTC is already better than USD in some ways, but it needs to be *real* for a lot more people, which means salesmanship.

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320335.new#new

I'll make and sell the kit. Your reply is encouraging. I figure there are probably 10s or 100s on this forum who'd be interested as well. I put an order for vinyl window stickers, and I'll shop around locally for some countertop QR displays.

BTC0.1 per kit?  BTC0.03 S&H?

Noob here:

More "regular" people are interested in trying out Bitcoin and I smell huge opportunities for experienced BTC users with people skills (anyone?  ) to talk with local retailers, from hydroponics to coffee to computers. However, there is not much available in the POS department (point of sale, not piece of s***) such as:
Window stickers
Counter signs
Pricing guns/price stickers
QR stations

These should be mass produced and made as cheap as possible. Anyone interested in designing, acquiring, and selling this "Bitcoin Sales Kit" below cost of one-off products some ambitious retailers are doing?

Anyone experienced with consulting gigs that would be interested in acquiring some of these types of items? There ought to be someone doing this. Many more retailers would sign up if they could pay for "IT" service on this area, at least to get started.

The more users that enter, the better. My favorite chart isn't USD/BTC, it's # My Wallet users over time. Steady growth.

Thanks!

JustOne