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Showing 20 of 32 results by Mike3574
Thank you once again to everyone that has posted their interesting ideas. However, I've canceled all work on this project a while ago. That's why I posted my GUI source. So if anyone wants to work on it then go right ahead! I'm only one man who has absolutely no programming experience and can barely manage to create the non-functional GUI. There was one coder involved at one time but he bailed out before he had even done any substantial work. Realistically, due to the scope of this project, a fairly large team would be needed to develop the many features and above all, ensure that everything is secure. I haven't even been able to develop a secure method in theory. It may not even be possible. Then again, nothing is impossible really. But this is just something that is beyond my own capabilities of bringing to life.
Please continue brainstorming! Maybe one idea that somebody puts forth here will actually be workable. Brainstorming never does any harm. Good luck to whoever decides to give a go at this project!
All Best,
Michael
Please continue brainstorming! Maybe one idea that somebody puts forth here will actually be workable. Brainstorming never does any harm. Good luck to whoever decides to give a go at this project!
All Best,
Michael
Where did you get a Realpay blockchain from? !!!
I had no idea there was a client ready or it had started?
Zoiner
I had no idea there was a client ready or it had started?
Zoiner
Go to realpay.org and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Download". It's available for Windows and Linux.
download the blockchain the hard way through the client (which is the safest way after all).
For one thing, your site isn't even SSL capable, so even if you are entirely honest, an attacker could alter the contents of the traffic between you and me, and I could end up downloading a different file than what you are hosting. Each bitcoin blockchain binary from BitcoinCharts gets digitally signed so that the download can be verified as being truly the one built by the site.
- http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/blockchain/
Using your blockchain binaries means that I am trusting that you haven't injected data that would cause my client to think a transaction was valid, when elsewhere on the network that transaction will be rejected.
Using these is something unsafe, yet for small amounts the convenience might outweight the risk of loss. Just wanted to make sure the risks of use got mentioned here.
I appreciate you bringing these things to my attention. I have inside the zip files the hashes of the individual files contained inside. However, as you said, if someone is able to modify that then it doesn't really matter. I will makes hashes of the actual zip files (which are still on my PC) and add them to the page. Would that solve this problem? Or is there still another way around it for an attacker? Please let me know. I want to do all I can to ensure that nothing is tampered with.
All Best,
Michael
Nice!
Just one question... How did you get the liquidcoin blocks?
I have had issues with the client being stuck at like 1,000 blocks or so and not moving.
Just one question... How did you get the liquidcoin blocks?
I have had issues with the client being stuck at like 1,000 blocks or so and not moving.
I didn't experience any problems with that. It just downloaded like all the other chains. I have no clue what is wrong with your client. Wish I could help!
Just giving a little update here. For the moment I'm only working on crypto-crypto trades because it is not possible to get fiat into a p2p environment at the moment. I've made some updates to the GUI. You can see picture of it here: http://litebit.co/project-item/p2px/ I'll upload some pics here later.
Also, in order to encourage developers to volunteer their time, I am releasing the source to my GUI. It can be downloaded here: http://pro2host.com/cryptocoin/p2px/
DISCLAIMER: This is a non-functional GUI! Only design and layout!
I've also been brainstorming a lot of ideas on this project. I'm a bit strapped for time now but I'll be writing about them later. I really want to get this project off the ground. It's been sitting for too long. I have zero developers!
Also, in order to encourage developers to volunteer their time, I am releasing the source to my GUI. It can be downloaded here: http://pro2host.com/cryptocoin/p2px/
DISCLAIMER: This is a non-functional GUI! Only design and layout!
I've also been brainstorming a lot of ideas on this project. I'm a bit strapped for time now but I'll be writing about them later. I really want to get this project off the ground. It's been sitting for too long. I have zero developers!
Mike, any updates on the tests or solutions?
Cryptocoin to Cryptocoin trades are not too difficult. Fiat is the hard part obviously. I have what might actually be a workable method for fiat but am doing a lot of careful consideration and fine tuning of the idea. Where there are potentially large sums of money at stake one can't be careless. I will post it if I feel that it is worthy. Keep sharing your ideas. I have been following and analyzing all of them.
All Best,
Michael
A bot is going to do what? Someone else's random transaction takes place thru my main account?
No. Other people's transactions will not be taking place through your account. Trader A is selling 1 Bitcoin at $4. Trader B want to buy them. Trader A accepts Dwolla. Trader B sends money from his Dwolla account to Trader A's Dwolla account. It's that simple. Your password will be encrypted and stored on your PC so that the bot can have access to your account so that the trading process can be automated. It will also show your Dwolla balance inside the program. The only thing that will be asked of you is to verify that you really want to buy those Bitcoins so you don't buy them by accident. Same goes for the person that puts the Bitcoins up for sale. They will be asked if they are sure they want to sell the amount of Bitcoins at the price they specified. Then the bots, working together with the Bitcoin blockchain (which is what we're currently working with for recording orders, etc.) handle the rest so that the trading process will be completely automated and indeed be completed in less than 30 seconds.
You propose some interesting ideas which will require some time to think about.
All Best,
Michael
Seller: Enter Dwolla login information. (It will be stored using encryption.)
Trader Bot: Logs into your Dwolla account and retrieves all necessary information such as your account balance and displays it inside P2P Exchange.
Um, no.Trader Bot: Logs into your Dwolla account and retrieves all necessary information such as your account balance and displays it inside P2P Exchange.
First off, my original post detailing the p2p exchange was more speculative than a definitive method. I was asking people to put forth their constructive criticisms and helpful ideas. "Um, no." is neither a constructive criticism nor a helpful idea. Things have changed considerably since my original posting thanks to people who gave their helpful ideas. I will either substantially edit or remove completely, the original thread in the days to come and post the new details.
The answer is yes and you will be hearing about it in the near future after it's been tested.
Seller: Enter Dwolla login information. (It will be stored using encryption.)
Trader Bot: Logs into your Dwolla account and retrieves all necessary information such as your account balance and displays it inside P2P Exchange.
Um, no.Trader Bot: Logs into your Dwolla account and retrieves all necessary information such as your account balance and displays it inside P2P Exchange.
First off, my original post detailing the p2p exchange was more speculative than a definitive method. I was asking people to put forth their constructive criticisms and helpful ideas. "Um, no." is neither a constructive criticism nor a helpful idea. Things have changed considerably since my original posting thanks to people who gave their helpful ideas. I will either substantially edit or remove completely, the original thread in the days to come and post the new details.
So, in real simple terms, what is the motive to create a P2P exchange?
The biggest bottlenecks right now are banks and payment processor. Recent events are good evidence of that (paxum, tradehill getting ripped off, banks freezing accounts without notice). If we rely on Dwolla, then there is still a central point of failure and it may reverse transactions (See there TOS).
I appreciate your work and your thoughts, but in my opinion, it appears to me you are trying to cut out the wrong man first (the exchange).
Figure out a way to do away with the banks and then you are talking seriously cool disruptive technology.
The biggest bottlenecks right now are banks and payment processor. Recent events are good evidence of that (paxum, tradehill getting ripped off, banks freezing accounts without notice). If we rely on Dwolla, then there is still a central point of failure and it may reverse transactions (See there TOS).
I appreciate your work and your thoughts, but in my opinion, it appears to me you are trying to cut out the wrong man first (the exchange).
Figure out a way to do away with the banks and then you are talking seriously cool disruptive technology.
Regarding the motive to create a P2P Exchange; Bitcoin is a decentralized system. Bitcoin itself can never be destroyed. It would only die if everyone in the world decided to abandon it and stop mining. Other than that, it will last forever. But there are actually things that can weaken the strength of a decentralized system. I call them "external centralizations". Bitcoin is decentralized and you can't change that but you could create centralized aspects outside of Bitcoin such as exchanges or mining pools. At first they seem like good things but having too much power in one area is dangerous. If Bitcoin became outlawed one day and all the exchanges were forced to close down, it would take a serious chunk out of the Bitcoin economy. It probably wouldn't completely destroy Bitcoin but would probably just force it into the underground. It would then be much harder to buy Bitcoins. Mining Pools are probably the most potentially dangerous "external centralization" because it has to do with the actual infrastructure of Bitcoin. If one mining pool gathers too much power there is the possibility a 51% attack can be done. The owners of the pool might be honest but what if a hacker was able to gain unauthorized control of that pool? He can then attack the network. That's why we need decentralized mining as well and I'm happy to see that there are people working on that. I wish them the best!
Dwolla is only one payment gateway that can be used. There will be many others (Liberty Reserve, Paxum, PayPal, etc.). I only used Dwolla as an example in my description. Since this is an Open Source project, theoretically ANY payment gateway can be used if someone makes a module for it.
Since fiat currency is centralized, I doubt there would be any way to possibly cut out the banks, etc. It's just not possible in the electronic world. Cash on the other hand does allow for this but is restricted to local business dealings. I understand your concern about accounts being frozen etc. In the current system we have for P2P Exchange, there will be no way your account can be frozen as a result of Bitcoin trading. This is simply because you will merely be sending money to another person. There is no way for them to know why you are sending money to that person. Your guess is as good as mine as to why person A sent money to person B. There is no way they can associate the transaction with Bitcoin.
I think the point is that Paxum and other banks won't deal with centralized exchanges, but their business is to move money between individuals, and if you use this system, they won't know if you're trading Bitcoin or just sending someone money. There won't be a single point of failure, that being the exchange's bank account, since many accounts will be involved individually.
Chargebacks will still be a problem with some systems, and I'm not sure how to get around that (force PayPal to send as gift? Use services that don't do chargebacks?)
As for using something like ripple, how do you get your money into ripple? And if it's a hassle, why bother instead of getting it into Bitcoin more directly?
Chargebacks will still be a problem with some systems, and I'm not sure how to get around that (force PayPal to send as gift? Use services that don't do chargebacks?)
As for using something like ripple, how do you get your money into ripple? And if it's a hassle, why bother instead of getting it into Bitcoin more directly?
Thank you very much for your comment. I wonder if using PayPal's "send as gift" function would prevent chargebacks. I really don't know anything about this but will look into it. If anyone has anything to say about this I'd like to know. As for the ripple method, a bunch of people have told me about that and I will look into it. But if we are successful in our current design there will be no need for ripple or any other "trust" method. You will be able to get your money directly into Bitcoin.
There are some that doubt we can successfully create a scam-proof peer-to-peer trading system without any sort of "trust" method. I have reason to believe that it IS possible and I am very optimistic. I do realize that solving the "trust" problem in a peer-to-peer trading system is probably akin to Satoshi Nakamoto solving the double spending problem. That might sound daunting to some but I don't let it deter me in the least. I accept the challenge! I've been told that I should receive the Nobel Prize if I succeed in solving this. My response to them is "Thank you for your flattering remark but they can keep their stupid Nobel Prize!" lol
Rassah, thank you very much for the time you've put aside to write those suggestions you posted a few posts back. And thank you to everyone else that posted interesting suggestions. I will put some time aside to review them all.
Picture of the GUI got me hooked.
I've seen another thread about Dark Exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27055.0), but it would be good to get ideas going in both places.
I've seen another thread about Dark Exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27055.0), but it would be good to get ideas going in both places.
Haha! Yea! I'm getting that from everyone. I'm glad you liked my design. I've recently just changed it a bit and added in a section for Trade History. I think it's looking even better now. I might post more pics down the line.
I admire the efforts of Dark Exchange. It's always good to see other ideas working. Then, at least if I don't succeed there is still hope in his idea.
I am still looking for coders for this project so if you are a coder and interested in helping out please send me a Private Message. We currently have only one coder so any help to push this project along quicker would be much appreciated.
All Best,
Michael
Unfortunately we find a lot of potential payment providers do misunderstand our business repeatedly, even after having months of communication with us.
Even though a quick visit to our website will show we only transfer USD around, we still get this common misunderstanding and it has caused us a whole pile of problems.
Even though a quick visit to our website will show we only transfer USD around, we still get this common misunderstanding and it has caused us a whole pile of problems.
It's totally, utterly ridiculous! I suppose they don't even know how to read!
Charlie I hope you can get to the bottom of this. Your business should not be affected since you don't handle any bitcoins. You strictly move USD around and have a licensed partner to do so.
Although once you get your account reinstated, I don't know why you would need it, because all the exchanges that you would link to won't be with Paxum anymore :/
Although once you get your account reinstated, I don't know why you would need it, because all the exchanges that you would link to won't be with Paxum anymore :/
I know, thats what pisses me off the most.
People really don't know how to read and it astonishes me how some incompetent fools can be in such high positions.
They assume 'bitinstant' means bitcoin.
Never the less, I will get to the bottom of this.
I wish you all the luck in the world man. This is totally bogus! But even if the exchanges won't deal with Paxum anymore that doesn't mean you have to eliminate it from your business model. You are merely a go between that allows funds to get into the exchanges. The funds go from Paxum to BitInstant and then to MtGox, etc. I see no reason, that if you wanted to, you couldn't have 100 different payment options for people to fund their exchange accounts even if they are not supported by that exchange. I mean, you even offer cash deposits! Am I correct in my logic here?
All Best,
Michael
This is an interesting project. However p2p trade systems have cost; that is the cost of protecting from double spending. Either you have a distributed verification network (like bitcoin with the block generation), or you have some sort of trusted centralized user that 'clears' the trades... (this is normally called a 'clearing house').
If by some miracle you have come up with an algorithm to solve this problem in a distributed p2p manner; it would be wonderful if you could produce a white paper that explains how you propose to solve this doubble spending problem.
I'm working on the Open Transactions project; this project is building secure (and centralized, but to a server of your choice, in the future we can have a group of federated trusted servers); the market software executes in a similar mechanism to the Bitcoin scripting. (through the use of cryptographic market contracts).
I really hope the best for your project, except I'm really scared if it doesn't have the well-thought-out cryptographic foundations (that we are still working on for the Open Transactions project); you will be opening your users up to easy scamming.
If by some miracle you have come up with an algorithm to solve this problem in a distributed p2p manner; it would be wonderful if you could produce a white paper that explains how you propose to solve this doubble spending problem.
I'm working on the Open Transactions project; this project is building secure (and centralized, but to a server of your choice, in the future we can have a group of federated trusted servers); the market software executes in a similar mechanism to the Bitcoin scripting. (through the use of cryptographic market contracts).
I really hope the best for your project, except I'm really scared if it doesn't have the well-thought-out cryptographic foundations (that we are still working on for the Open Transactions project); you will be opening your users up to easy scamming.
Thank you for your response! At first I didn't want to create a new blockchain because I felt there are already so many and it would only complicate things. But now I'm thinking it may be the only possible way to do this securely without a web-of-trust. We are currently designing an algorithm for this. At the moment we're calling it P2Coin. Both me and the one coder for this project that I have so far are working on it. We both enjoy and are good at designing these types of systems. This will be a fun experiment!
I will also advise that no one trade any amount that would really hurt them if they lost it until it is announced as a stable system. Due to the nature of what's at stake here (people's money) there will be extensive testing involved.
All Best,
Michael
I've never used Paxum, but dwolla charges $0.25 for each transfer. Though still cheaper than Mt Gox in many cases, for someone selling .1BTC, it would be a large fee. If they (or any other funding option) have an issue regarding the frequency of transactions, this may not be a viable option for a day-trader, esp. a HFT bot.
This does give an easy straight forward means of getting money in to BTC for the average Joe just trying to make a quick purchase though.
Good Luck with your project.
This does give an easy straight forward means of getting money in to BTC for the average Joe just trying to make a quick purchase though.
Good Luck with your project.
Dwolla was only for an example. My goal is to have EVERY payment gateway available eventually.
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Unlike other attempts at creating a peer-to-peer exchange, P2P Exchange does not rely on a web-of-trust system. How is this possible? The answer is quite simple. I like to call the mechanism that executes the trade a "Trader Bot"
Your proposed trader bot does nothing except error checking before offering a trade. As an open source client, a malicious party could bypass these checks if desired.Say something that hasn't already been said please! If you have a solution share it!
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I think you're headed down the wrong path, and should integrate in support for a web of trust. I know of no other possible solution to the problem of a distributed exchange.
I'm open to whatever works. I'd like to make it work without a web-of-trust but if it comes down to it then that's what we'll do.
However, the bids are simple as far as I can see. Before placing a bid the software will check to see if the amount you are trading exists in your wallet before allowing it to go through.
These are difficult to solve problem which will likely require some kind of distributed escrow, multi-signature solution, or fiat based crypto-currency. To say it is "easy" would indicate you haven't thought this out.
So the checking is done in the client?
The client which will be open source?
The source code anyone can modify to include the "checking portion"?
So my modified version will let me spam the network with bogus bids and asks?
A 3rd party exchange serves two major functions:
a) to ensure the trader has the asset being traded.
b) to ensure the trader can't avoid trading when his trade is matched.
The entire decentralized p2p exchange boils down to solving those two problems.
So you've found holes! Now tell me how to fix them! My goal in this posting is to have people find the holes and give their ideas on how to make it work. When a full-proof workable system is developed then the coding will begin. I like your idea of the distributed escrow. Tell me more!
All Best,
Michael
Couple issues:
You haven't explained how the trade happens without 3rd party. This is a non-trivial problem.
Buyer has USD. Seller has BTC. They agree on an exchange. How EXACTLY do you intend to faciltate the transfer so that Seller's BTC go to Buyer's wallet and Buyer's USD get transfered to seller's Dwolla account without one party just taking both and leaving.
You haven't explained how you will enforce bids without a 3rd party. This is a non-trivial problem.
I offer for sale 1,000,000 BTC @ $1 ea. How do you ensure that I have 1,000,000 BTC and that I can't remove the order once matched and executed.
There likely are solutions but you seem to have glossed away the entire problem which isn't reassuring.
You haven't explained how the trade happens without 3rd party. This is a non-trivial problem.
Buyer has USD. Seller has BTC. They agree on an exchange. How EXACTLY do you intend to faciltate the transfer so that Seller's BTC go to Buyer's wallet and Buyer's USD get transfered to seller's Dwolla account without one party just taking both and leaving.
You haven't explained how you will enforce bids without a 3rd party. This is a non-trivial problem.
I offer for sale 1,000,000 BTC @ $1 ea. How do you ensure that I have 1,000,000 BTC and that I can't remove the order once matched and executed.
There likely are solutions but you seem to have glossed away the entire problem which isn't reassuring.
I haven't glossed away anything. I said that I want people to give their ideas. I'm aware (and even said so) that the trade system is not full-proof. However, the bids are simple as far as I can see. Before placing a bid the software will check to see if the amount you are trading exists in your wallet before allowing it to go through.
All Best,
Michael
This is my project. I've posted the details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62879.msg734702#msg734702
Thanks StewartJ for posting this.
All Best,
Michael
Thanks StewartJ for posting this.
All Best,
Michael