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The real value of anything is always what people are willing to pay for it at that moment.
Thus if you see DOGEs are worth 175 satoshi then that is it's REAL value.
There is no such thing as an unreal value.
There is future value and that is something that economists and MBAs have been struggling with for centuries.
You can probably use an NPV calculation to give something reasonably close though, but NPV requires some amount of stability. It can't be fluctuating 20% per day.
Thus if you see DOGEs are worth 175 satoshi then that is it's REAL value.
There is no such thing as an unreal value.
There is future value and that is something that economists and MBAs have been struggling with for centuries.
You can probably use an NPV calculation to give something reasonably close though, but NPV requires some amount of stability. It can't be fluctuating 20% per day.
Re: Advice on proposing crypto's as an investment opportunity to my bosses.
These guys are in their late 40's and most things technology related are beyond them, so a techno-geek in his late 20's spouting off the details of what Bitcoin is & how it works probably isn't in my best interest.
Ideally what I want to happen is for them to invest as much as they're willing to risk to put towards building a mining rig with me taking 25% of the profits and I'd maintain the operations out of their warehouse (I'd also have my own mining rig in there dedicated to my profits. Maybe give them 10% since they're paying rent for the place).
Two things. No one in their 40's knows technology in spite of the fact many grew up writing code in assembly on 8 bit processors with 16K of RAM? Adjust your attitude or you won't get any respect if you don't give it.Ideally what I want to happen is for them to invest as much as they're willing to risk to put towards building a mining rig with me taking 25% of the profits and I'd maintain the operations out of their warehouse (I'd also have my own mining rig in there dedicated to my profits. Maybe give them 10% since they're paying rent for the place).
Secondly, you're going to need to make it worth their while. You want them to buy the equipment and then only give 25% plus you are going to run your own hardware and maybe give them 10%? Meanwhile they are paying the rent and buying equipment for nothing? If you want this to work, you should buy all the equipment, pitch in on rent, and promise them a larger share once the gear is paid off. Otherwise your intentions to use them look pretty obvious.
Uhh most of the people I know in their 40s who grew up doing that are here on this forum, or making bank doing something else, definetly not your MBA types. Your average 40 year old is in fact clueless about tech and in the 1980s they were playing pong , pacman or super mario. Not dinkin around with assembly on 16k of ram.
Remember, MOST people are not geeks. MOST people were in the jock, stoner or other club and were busy sedating their brains while growing up so they could settle into their blue collar lifestyle.
Always remember, not everyone gets to be an Astronaut when they grow up be we will always need someone to flip burgers.
Re: If BitInstant is down, what is the best way to get Bitcoin in USA?
To answer the OP, the best way to get it is to start a local club and evangelize the currency.
Linux had a similar problem in adoption when it first started and the answer were LUGs (Linux User Groups).
Start with localbitcoins.com and do some face to face trades. Get to know the people you're trading with, meet up for pizza and presentations.
Maybe we should have a term for that (BUGs) Bitcoin User Groups. (*disclaimer, this might exist already an I just haven't seen it*)
Bitcoin currently has two problems it needs to over come before it can become a true currency (as in medium of exchange, not a speculative investment).
Those are, exchanging fiat into bitcoin and exchanging bitcoin into fiat.
The more people who accept and utilize it as an actual currency the less need there is for these 2 services and these problems eventually all but go away.
In the end we will probably end up with a couple of major exchanges than exchange into fiat and those are only used so people can pay government bills like taxes.
I would not be surprised to see governments move to adopt cryptos in the future. However they will never give up central control of the money supply, so while they might be cryptographically secure and use the same algorithms, they will still be central issue. Nevertheless once that step is taken, BTC and all it's babies will finally be able to be used as a full on real currency.
Linux had a similar problem in adoption when it first started and the answer were LUGs (Linux User Groups).
Start with localbitcoins.com and do some face to face trades. Get to know the people you're trading with, meet up for pizza and presentations.
Maybe we should have a term for that (BUGs) Bitcoin User Groups. (*disclaimer, this might exist already an I just haven't seen it*)
Bitcoin currently has two problems it needs to over come before it can become a true currency (as in medium of exchange, not a speculative investment).
Those are, exchanging fiat into bitcoin and exchanging bitcoin into fiat.
The more people who accept and utilize it as an actual currency the less need there is for these 2 services and these problems eventually all but go away.
In the end we will probably end up with a couple of major exchanges than exchange into fiat and those are only used so people can pay government bills like taxes.
I would not be surprised to see governments move to adopt cryptos in the future. However they will never give up central control of the money supply, so while they might be cryptographically secure and use the same algorithms, they will still be central issue. Nevertheless once that step is taken, BTC and all it's babies will finally be able to be used as a full on real currency.
Re: If BitInstant is down, what is the best way to get Bitcoin in USA?
This is exactly why you should not use exchanges like BitInstant, CoinBase, CaVirtex or MtGox!
Charlie Shrem is going to provide all financial records of his customers to the FBI and IRS. Goodbye Bitcoin, Hello IRS. Did you buy significant amount of bitcoin through BitInstant? Expect a knock on the door. Good luck.
Instead of using these government-compromised exchanges, try the anonymous exchange https://CoinChimp.com and the anonymous Bitcoin debit card https://BitPlastic.com
We do NOT store client information!
Charlie Shrem is going to provide all financial records of his customers to the FBI and IRS. Goodbye Bitcoin, Hello IRS. Did you buy significant amount of bitcoin through BitInstant? Expect a knock on the door. Good luck.
Instead of using these government-compromised exchanges, try the anonymous exchange https://CoinChimp.com and the anonymous Bitcoin debit card https://BitPlastic.com
We do NOT store client information!
You should make sure to retain an attorney before you launch this.
What you are talking about is the literal definition of money laundering.
KYC isn't a US requirement. It's a world wide thing. If you aren't collecting and retaining enough info to identify your customers to the feds (or tax authority of any country), then you will end up just like Liberty Reserve who had a very similar thing going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Reserve
They weren't even in the USA and I don't think that even slowed the feds down.
Best to try and be legit. No one should be using crypto's to try and dodge taxes there are plenty of loop holes in the US Tax code that no one needs to pay very much in taxes if they structure things correctly. Plus it's above board, clean and legal.
To all who have written to the topic,
I'm currently working on a "trade robot", too. My primary aim is to make profit by having the code trade for myself, but I want to commercialise the project later and do what OP does. So, do you think that there is way of offering such a service without taking their API keys? Sorry, but I cannot give my precious source code.
I'm currently working on a "trade robot", too. My primary aim is to make profit by having the code trade for myself, but I want to commercialise the project later and do what OP does. So, do you think that there is way of offering such a service without taking their API keys? Sorry, but I cannot give my precious source code.
Ok I won't even begin to try to explain to you the legal liabilities inherent in writing a trading bot and selling it. It should be obvious that you will end up in a huge tank of hotwater if you make even a tiny little mistake. Don't believe me? Go find my ATP thread where we discovered a week into trading that although everything looked good when the market was moving a slight oversight (dividing a float into an int) was actually costing people money. I'm really, really lucky I (as Isis) had the support of a community who were willing to take a loss to test a bot. Still people were pissed and I won't lie there were some nastygrams (nicely worded nastygrams, but nastygrams nonetheless).
If bitcoin had been a real currency at that time (I think it was worth < $10), I highly doubt I would be here explaining the lesson I learned to you.
Still that was the best way to develop it. Open source it, release it to the community. Test your algorithms on yourself. If you don't have the funds to test it on yourself then find a business partner who is willing to take the risk and thus reap the reward. Use their funds. Not ours, thanks!
I'm very proud of the fact that even though I haven't touched my ATP bot in 2 years that a whole community has grown around it and taken it places I never imagined.
That was only possible because I opened the source from the beginning.
Point of fact, this is not an easy business to be in. If you don't have at least some skill as a programmer, mathematician and day trader in your own right, you're going to take massive losses.
I've programmed trading systems for the likes of JP Morgan and I still make occasional mistakes that nearly wipe me out.
There's always something going on you didn't forsee.
I applaud you for trying, but please until you have real experience or feel you have something innovative to contribute, play with your own money.
If you truly think you've innovated something, then share the code with the community. No one is going to steal your super secret codez. Very few people would even know how to compile and run it, but they can probably help you vet your algorithms by explaining things you never considered. But that's only possible if you share them.
You did the right thing. The point of escrow is to give you enough time to verify that good funds have arrived.
On PayPal, Dwolla, or other types of deposit you should take it a step further and go get your cash out and hold it in your hands before you release funds.
Otherwise there could be a chargeback up to 180 days later.
On PayPal, Dwolla, or other types of deposit you should take it a step further and go get your cash out and hold it in your hands before you release funds.
Otherwise there could be a chargeback up to 180 days later.
Ya'll are being WAY to pessimistic. If the guy has funding, paying a programmer isn't going to be an issue.
Here's how I hire qualified programmers on the cheap. It works well and I have a track record of putting together solid teams that can deliver on time and under budget.
First make sure you actually do have a budget of some sort. Any programmer willing to work for a percentage stake on a serious project is not someone you want to hire, period.
Second make sure your legal bases are covered. This means talking to a lawyer and finding out what your actual liabilities could be in the area you are operating in. This is especially true in the western world where we're all a bunch of litigious bastards. I've found it to not be such a big issue in Central America, but here in the States and in Europe, you'll be sued into oblivion within a week of your first press release if you don't handle the legal issues first.
Third don't hire a programmer, hire a project coordinator. Someone with a track record. You can find them on LinkedIn. They'll be the guy/gals hanging out in the PMP and Project+ areas and they'll have a ton of references posted clearly on their profile. What's a ton? At least 10 glowing reviews. 20 is better. Anything more than 25 is probably someone who paid for it and not worth your time unless you can verify the people endorsing them are who they actually claim to be.
Fourth, once you have a detailed project plan look at all the technologies involved. More than likely each tech will have a definitive open source project that sort of serves as the defacto-standard for what you're trying to accomplish. Look at the list of contributors. Github is a good way to see who's been up to what. Find someone with recent commits to the repo, or pull requests that have been accepted in the last 90 days. Don't pick the #1 guy/gal they'll be consulting and they will charge a small fortune. Instead pick someone from somewhere in the middle up the top 10%. They are interested enough in the tech to be playing with it in their spare time and have gotten good enough to make an impact. All while probably not being compensated for it. Their compensation demands tend to be minimal, although you may need to work them part time.
Approach them and offer cash money to work on your project in a similar capacity. Do not offer equity! If they want equity they will ask for it, but don't think you're going to get the next Satoshi Nakamoto or Linus Torvalds for straight equity. In fact you'll be lucky if you get the next Leeroy Jenkins.
Doing this one wierd trick has given me a track record of 0 project failures and only 2 late deliveries in 10 years of IT Consulting across a broad and diverse range of products.
Here's how I hire qualified programmers on the cheap. It works well and I have a track record of putting together solid teams that can deliver on time and under budget.
First make sure you actually do have a budget of some sort. Any programmer willing to work for a percentage stake on a serious project is not someone you want to hire, period.
Second make sure your legal bases are covered. This means talking to a lawyer and finding out what your actual liabilities could be in the area you are operating in. This is especially true in the western world where we're all a bunch of litigious bastards. I've found it to not be such a big issue in Central America, but here in the States and in Europe, you'll be sued into oblivion within a week of your first press release if you don't handle the legal issues first.
Third don't hire a programmer, hire a project coordinator. Someone with a track record. You can find them on LinkedIn. They'll be the guy/gals hanging out in the PMP and Project+ areas and they'll have a ton of references posted clearly on their profile. What's a ton? At least 10 glowing reviews. 20 is better. Anything more than 25 is probably someone who paid for it and not worth your time unless you can verify the people endorsing them are who they actually claim to be.
Fourth, once you have a detailed project plan look at all the technologies involved. More than likely each tech will have a definitive open source project that sort of serves as the defacto-standard for what you're trying to accomplish. Look at the list of contributors. Github is a good way to see who's been up to what. Find someone with recent commits to the repo, or pull requests that have been accepted in the last 90 days. Don't pick the #1 guy/gal they'll be consulting and they will charge a small fortune. Instead pick someone from somewhere in the middle up the top 10%. They are interested enough in the tech to be playing with it in their spare time and have gotten good enough to make an impact. All while probably not being compensated for it. Their compensation demands tend to be minimal, although you may need to work them part time.
Approach them and offer cash money to work on your project in a similar capacity. Do not offer equity! If they want equity they will ask for it, but don't think you're going to get the next Satoshi Nakamoto or Linus Torvalds for straight equity. In fact you'll be lucky if you get the next Leeroy Jenkins.
Doing this one wierd trick has given me a track record of 0 project failures and only 2 late deliveries in 10 years of IT Consulting across a broad and diverse range of products.
Re: [2014-02-02] Costumers Unhappy With Virtual Mining Company Cloudhashing
Follow us on Twitter to see a real cloudmining service growing.
@bitcoinbrothers
@bitcoinbrothers
Also you should be careful about names you choose. It can cause confusion.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Bitcoin-Brothers-LLC/Colorado-Springs-Colorado/Bitcoin-Brothers-LLC-Cameron-Schorg-They-will-steal-your-money-and-not-answer-you-e-mails-1108588
Obviously that link has nothing to do with bitcoinbrothers.de but I think you see my point. Now you'll be linked on the internet forever.
Re: [2014-02-02] Costumers Unhappy With Virtual Mining Company Cloudhashing
Follow us on Twitter to see a real cloudmining service growing.
@bitcoinbrothers
Gawd I really need to change my nick, there are WAY to many people asking me about crap that has absolutely nothing to do with me, including about the dude above.@bitcoinbrothers
So uhh, anyone ever have success with this company or not?
I'm not forkin over BTC just to not have a product not delivered.
OTOH I'm looking to move more of my life into the crypto economy and supplying my nicotine needs might be a good first step.
I'm not forkin over BTC just to not have a product not delivered.
OTOH I'm looking to move more of my life into the crypto economy and supplying my nicotine needs might be a good first step.Re: [ANN][BOX] BoxxyCoin fair launch POSTPONED DUE TO C&D ORDER
Seriously, this is not a troll.
If Boxxy gets her own coin, why not an Amanda Bynes coin?
I mean every stinkin celeb gets a stinkin coin, but not Amanda! Give me a break!
If Boxxy gets her own coin, why not an Amanda Bynes coin?
I mean every stinkin celeb gets a stinkin coin, but not Amanda! Give me a break!
Thanks to CryptoRush, we're now officially traded on an exchange!
https://www.cryptorush.in/index.php?p=trading&m=ORG&b=BTC
Other pairs are coming soon...
Thanks CryptoRush!
https://www.cryptorush.in/index.php?p=trading&m=ORG&b=BTC
Other pairs are coming soon...
Thanks CryptoRush!
Cool, come on over to www.orgcoin.org and join the community!
There are lots of ways to help with the beta.
Welcome aboard!
There are lots of ways to help with the beta.
Welcome aboard!
I'm putting in a vote for Orgcoin ORG ☯
It's the first crypto coin designed to help people raise funds for their favorite charity, non-profit or other good cause.
www.orgcoin.org for more information.
It's the first crypto coin designed to help people raise funds for their favorite charity, non-profit or other good cause.
www.orgcoin.org for more information.
We've had our announcement on Cryptocointalk.
Also there is a bounty of ☯1,000 for any exchange that lists ORG. I've contacted a few of the smaller ones, but if you manage to get an exchange to list us email me directly and I'll send you ☯1,000 as well.
Also there is a bounty of ☯1,000 for any exchange that lists ORG. I've contacted a few of the smaller ones, but if you manage to get an exchange to list us email me directly and I'll send you ☯1,000 as well.
Re: [ANN][USC] First merged minable scryptcoin UnitedScryptCoin
Orgcoin is running a merge mined LTC/ORG pool. It would be trivial to add USC to it. At the moment my p2pool debug logs seem to indicate that p2pool thinks Orgcoin IS USC (we share a common codebase so it's not surprising). Once I get that resolved I'll add USC to pool.orgcoin.org and you'll be able to earn USC & ORG while mining for LTC.
Pool is up!
You can now merge mine LTC/ORG together!
Point your miner at pool.orgcoin.org:9327 your username is your LTC address (should work with stratum or getwork I left the protocol completely off and cgminer picked stratum).
Once you've done that come to http://www.orgcoin.org/topic/6/how-to-mine-for-orgcoins
And post your LTC and Orgcoin addresses so that I can pay you your Orgcoins as well.
Make sure to sign your post with both addresses!
You can now merge mine LTC/ORG together!
Point your miner at pool.orgcoin.org:9327 your username is your LTC address (should work with stratum or getwork I left the protocol completely off and cgminer picked stratum).
Once you've done that come to http://www.orgcoin.org/topic/6/how-to-mine-for-orgcoins
And post your LTC and Orgcoin addresses so that I can pay you your Orgcoins as well.
Make sure to sign your post with both addresses!