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Re: Satoshi Nakamoto a.k.a. Glenn M. Lilly (mathematician for the NSA)
gold on the other hand REQUIRES;
1. Deisel
2. roads and transport
3. Miners sluice machines, trucks and foundries to process gold
4. Buyer.
5. Seller.
1. Deisel
2. roads and transport
3. Miners sluice machines, trucks and foundries to process gold
4. Buyer.
5. Seller.
1. If we are comparing apples to oranges, bitcoin mining consumes 150 terawatt-hours of electricity annually at the current rate, looking into the future as mining becomes more difficult, this will lead to an increase in carbon emissions and ever increasing TWh use - bitcoin will continue burning more fossil fuels than gold mining operations combined, and will do so every single year without decline. Leading to a much more destructive pattern than gold on the environment. Gold doesn't require a network backbone to function. Bitcoin does. Therefore, bitcoin will always remain energy intensive. And will always be REQUIRED to sustain. Cross 1 off your list. Diesel is not required. It's about convenience and efficiency.
2. Roads and transport are needed to deliver products, are you telling me that without roads and transport people wouldn't be able to use their gold? Oh my, I wonder how the Ancient Egyptians managed with their cars 7,000 years ago to bring gold to be used... Cross 2 off your list. Roads weren't around 7,000 year ago... Again, not required.
3. Again, mining gold can be done without these methods and without much of a carbon footprint as seen with historical mining, although much less efficiently - before diesel existed... There's no way around burning fossil fuels to mine bitcoin, and as stated before will require increasing amounts of energy consumption to sustain... No. Way. Around. It... Gold doesn't require any of these things, it's a matter of convenience and efficiency. Cross 3 off your list.
4. Buyer - required.
5. Seller - required.
Congratulations on wasting your time and mine, as well as the electricity and calories for my laptop and body to respond. Like bitcoin, your off to great start at not being more efficient.
fixed that for you - What exactly did you fix?
as for bitcoin
bitcoin does not ask for your name or if you are a terrorist
- Bitcoin is all done online, there is an entry point and exit point, there is a PUBLIC LEDGER of all your transactions, there are numerous exploits that the general public is unaware of, underlying flaws that you conveniently continue to overlook. Have you ever heard of a company called chainalysis? They work with the Feds to find out who owns the wallets that have illicit proceeds, as does the IRS.... Are you being intentionally evasive to the facts?... are you unaware that AML/KYC laws shadow the crypto space today?
- You were probably one of the same people back when it first started that was yelling from the rooftops "the government can't track you, it's used by criminals", "it's decentralized", "it can't be hacked", "you can't be taxed", "you can be traced"... Even with VPN's the NSA can EASILY and quickly find out exactly who owns what wallets by monitoring and decrypting internet traffic, mostly done using AI. And just as easily empty your online wallet as easy as the patriot act gave them the ability to freeze and seize your bank account... How are you not keeping up with this, or are those bitcoin blinders causing tunnel vision?
- One thing I noticed is that you, as well as many others here are completely biased or not as educated on the subject as you're leading the viewing public to believe. Causing more confusion and chaos than it's ultimately worth.
i challenge you to look at any transaction on the blockchain. any block header.. and show me where it includes peoples birth names/ geo location and what they are buying... hint: you wont find it
- Hint: look through the device your holding or using to transact for a MAC address (Media Access Control address) and that's all the info the government or bad actor needs to tie an identity to you, to figure out who that wallet(s) belong to, just as easily see your other crypto and banking holdings. Congratulations, you lost because your ego got in the way of the facts.
- Wanna know how I know you are wrong and don't really know what you're talking about? I was arrested by the FBI, NSA, DHS, Secret Service, US Marshals, local and state police departments for hacking cable modems and giving users on a global scale free untraceable internet access... So please forgive me for pointing out my experience on this as this is my field of expertise. Crypto can be taken away from you without a moments notice at the stroke of a key, it's happened to many people already, and also to people with all the technical know how to store their coins from prying eyes... It maybe hasn't happened to you (yet), but if and when it does will you still be singing the same song and dance as you are now when your wallets get emptied? You might not take my word for it, but what about John McAfee? Is he crazy, he also doesn't know what hes talking about? What I wanna know is what experience or credentials do you have to be educating someone on the intricacies of online digital currencies or stores of value?
gold relies on vaults, pawnbrokers and gold merchants.
you do know that BUSINESSES that facilitate trade(of both gold and bitcoin) do ask for KYC. but the currency (bitcoin/gold) does not
- Gold is STORED in vaults, without vaults gold has the same utility as it always has, it doesn't RELY on anything except the buyer and seller... use your brain man... KYC is now blanketed across the entire crypto space for ANY amount purchased in bitcoin. You are automatically being tracked. Gold is hand to hand person to person. Without the need for a handheld device... 100% anonymous and untraceable. If you even bring up serial numbers I'm gonna e-smack you... gold can be melted down, and nobody would be the wiser of where it came from or who owned it before you. bitcoin on the other hand... public ledger!
bitcoin miners are self contained in their work. they are incentivised by block rewards mainly. they are not reliant on transactions. yep they can make blocks without any transactions in it and still get their reward.
- Exactly my point. They DO NOT have to process your transactions, miners are REQUIRED in order for confirmations to be completed for a transaction to go completely through. Without a miner to process your transaction you are SOL. I use to be a big bitcoin miner, trust me on this. No way around or out of a miner to process ALL transactions. If that's necessary, since when does a store of value require the need for a third party to process a transaction? It never did before. What I see is man creating another problem without a solution. Imagine back when gold was first discovered how ridiculous it would sound to "ask" the government permission to buy or sell something using gold and then give them a small cut for them allowing you, that' just crazy. And that's essentially what miners can do... They don't like the fee you pay, they can deny your transaction, and you're left in shits creek with just oars and no boat... No store of value.
bitcoin users storing bitcoin. need to do nothing. but keep their private key safe. they can go years without looking on the internet and know their private key will still work where they can spend their funds later
they do not need to be online 24/7 just to keep their funds safe
trying to keep gold safe is more intensive and requires more effort.
oh .. and also think about the logistics involved and the costs to move gold cross the planet within 10 minutes..
yes gold has utility in local hand to hand transactions.. but when it comes to international transactions. gold fails the utility tests
I can't keep explaining all the different ways that you are incorrect about this, it's wasting my time - that's why I stopped after the miner comment. I think I made my point. I am willing to bet you've never actually held an ounce of gold in your hands so to speak about it is a disservice to everyone viewing this nonsense.
If your electric has gone out, for nonpayment of the bill, or because of rampant runaway inflation, or because of some other unforseen event (as demonstrated in so many countries GLOBALLY) where's the store of value?
What good is a store of value that cannot be used?
If your internet goes down, where's the store of value?
If ISP's/phone providers choose to block certain MAC addresses, who has stores of value and who are the unlucky ones?
The point I'm trying to make is that an ACTUAL STORE OF VALUE needs to be accessible 100% of the time for utilization, and not just some of the time.
You cannot guarantee the power grid will be here tomorrow, nor can you guarantee that your internet will be working when you want it to, nor can you guarantee that the mining farms will stay decentralized, nor can you guarantee that a miner will process your transaction when you need them to...
A STORE OF VALUE is NOT reliant on more than 2 things to function properly;
1. The Buyer.
2. The Seller.
That's it. Gold and Silver were chosen because they are perfect for fulfilling that role, without any FLAWS, without any downtime or reliance on anything else. Nothing will ever replace them, people have tried, and have always failed.
bitcoin on the other hand REQUIRES;
1. Electrical grids.
2. Internet Service Providers.
3. Miners to process your transaction.
4. AML/KYC.
5. Buyer.
6. Seller.
And that's not even counting all the exploits that exist that are unknown to you, anything digital can be easily stolen, hacked, confiscated, seized, etc... I prefer my store of value to be physical, that works irregardless of power or internet outages, government having the ability to track what I'm doing, or some kid in his garage with a laptop that can empty my wallet without my say so... That's NOT a store of value. It has FLAWS. Plain and simple.
I can't believe you people are this naive - it's been around less than 20 years and your so certain of it's future, based on what exactly? That it's flawless?.... Hardly. Not even close to a store of value imho.
I can guarantee gold and silver will be working 24/7 and will never rely on anything besides the buyer and seller.
What good is a store of value that cannot be used?
If your internet goes down, where's the store of value?
If ISP's/phone providers choose to block certain MAC addresses, who has stores of value and who are the unlucky ones?
The point I'm trying to make is that an ACTUAL STORE OF VALUE needs to be accessible 100% of the time for utilization, and not just some of the time.
You cannot guarantee the power grid will be here tomorrow, nor can you guarantee that your internet will be working when you want it to, nor can you guarantee that the mining farms will stay decentralized, nor can you guarantee that a miner will process your transaction when you need them to...
A STORE OF VALUE is NOT reliant on more than 2 things to function properly;
1. The Buyer.
2. The Seller.
That's it. Gold and Silver were chosen because they are perfect for fulfilling that role, without any FLAWS, without any downtime or reliance on anything else. Nothing will ever replace them, people have tried, and have always failed.
bitcoin on the other hand REQUIRES;
1. Electrical grids.
2. Internet Service Providers.
3. Miners to process your transaction.
4. AML/KYC.
5. Buyer.
6. Seller.
And that's not even counting all the exploits that exist that are unknown to you, anything digital can be easily stolen, hacked, confiscated, seized, etc... I prefer my store of value to be physical, that works irregardless of power or internet outages, government having the ability to track what I'm doing, or some kid in his garage with a laptop that can empty my wallet without my say so... That's NOT a store of value. It has FLAWS. Plain and simple.
I can't believe you people are this naive - it's been around less than 20 years and your so certain of it's future, based on what exactly? That it's flawless?.... Hardly. Not even close to a store of value imho.
I can guarantee gold and silver will be working 24/7 and will never rely on anything besides the buyer and seller.
It's amazing the level of bias from the members on these boards. You are all on a shared delusion. How long has bitcoin existed? Has it existed more than 100 years? 200 years? How long have you been alive?
Case and point gold and silver were here long before, and will be here long after both you, and bitcoin the man made invention) are gone.
Governments can and will squash it if they want and there's no amount of arguing that will save it from becoming put under so much regulation that nobody will use it.
Store of value doesn't shed 40% of it's value... That's indicative of a ponzi scheme. How about lets talk about the trading bots that ultimately control the market, or am I a conspiracy theorist for pointing this out?
I expect completely biased individuals to jump in and try to rationalize all the ways that I'm supposedly wrong. But the fact is you all cannot argue with history, and what world banks and governments are stockpiling. Don't forget, they can blow you up, at that point your monetary pipe dream theories al go out the window.
Case and point gold and silver were here long before, and will be here long after both you, and bitcoin the man made invention) are gone.
Governments can and will squash it if they want and there's no amount of arguing that will save it from becoming put under so much regulation that nobody will use it.
Store of value doesn't shed 40% of it's value... That's indicative of a ponzi scheme. How about lets talk about the trading bots that ultimately control the market, or am I a conspiracy theorist for pointing this out?
I expect completely biased individuals to jump in and try to rationalize all the ways that I'm supposedly wrong. But the fact is you all cannot argue with history, and what world banks and governments are stockpiling. Don't forget, they can blow you up, at that point your monetary pipe dream theories al go out the window.
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Most governments are dinosaurs when it comes to technology, the US government is no exception.
So based on your think tank analysis of "most governments", they don't understand bitcoin?
Maybe they don't understand it the way that I do, but they are intelligent enough to stop any potential threats to their current financial system when it pertains to online digital dollars. The internet relies on ISP's, who are regulated by government oversight - if the government wants to strangle the life out of bitcoin, that's within their realm of power - as amply shown with current AML/KYC laws. Internet service providers are more than happy to comply since they work together. Indisputable facts.
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Governments do not know the economics about cryptos and the only knowledge pertaining to them that they have is from their crypto specialists, who are more knowledgeable about how to trace crypto owners than how it actually works:
Again, underestimating and attempting to undermine the people in charge of the current system just demonstrates your lack of understanding of the people in charge. They are alot more dangerous and in control than you realize. You are making snap judgements based on what exactly? One thing I learned is to never underestimate anyone, ever. Especially governments. You are basically telling me and the world by posting here that "most governments" don't understand economics? Sure they do, they created this flawed system we use today (by design i might add), that you still continue to be a part of and utilize.
Governments collectively might not understand the code, or how each block is determined, but they understand very well that without power or internet that bitcoin = nothing. Seriously, you are making me feel like I'm teaching astrophysics to a penguin. First let's cover some baby steps, I understand everyone learns at a different pace here so I'll go slow...
Who invented the internet, and for what primary use?
The internet indeed began as a typical government program. The ARPANET, designed to share mainframe computing power and to establish a secure military communications network. You honestly believe that they didn't understand or envision the potential when they created the backbone on which your cryptos operate and where we are having this argument right now? Let's not forget about the NSA, yeah your friends that spy on all your communications and log everything you do online... You going to tell me they don't understand bitcoin either, when in fact it was one of their own mathematicians (Glenn M. Lilly) - search patent 6829355. My honest opinion to you, and majority of others arguing opinions based outside of logic is that you might think about spending more time researching history and facts rather than news articles that perpetuate foolish beliefs.
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Same reason why Tesla dumped their cache - because they need hard cash for liquidity, nobody there will accept payment on Bitcoin.
- Flawed logic.The government/federal reserve can print as much currency as they want... liquidity isn't an issue when you control the issuance of currency into the system. There is nothing to stop them from doing this at will.
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News media outlets writing about crypto are written usually by uneducated and uninformed people who have no knowledge of cryptocurrency economics.
This is one area where I agree with you to a point. They generally are not educated about crypto-currency, however their main role is to speak to the general public with a pre-determined script written by higher ups. They are just smart enough to do the paperwork, understanding something isn't their role when it comes to speaking, same way that presidents aren't hired to be brilliant. There is someone pulling the levers behind the curtains.
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Sure we do. Most of us own bitcoin because we believe in its economic principles. You can mock and ridicule us now, but you will be the one shaking your head when Bitcoin's price moons again and you missed out on it (for the $1 trillion market cap is the not the peak of its market adoption).
Except for the fact that I accurately predicated the exact price range and at the exact time (right before they mooned, 2 x in a row with 100% success), case and point:
https://youtu.be/eqZHzbP2Fe4
Still believe I don't understand bitcoin, and I don't know what I'm talking about? I was arrested by the government (a few 3 letter agencies) for my work with reverse engineering firmware and giving countless people (globally) free untraceable internet access... Also, I began mining bitcoin in 2008-2016 and am a Network Architect in distributed systems from 2001-current... What credentials do you have to be lecturing anyone about crypto's, let alone governments?
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Hard asset: Gold - 6000+ years and counting. Governments cannot stop it, so they hoard it instead.
Empty space: Bitcoin - 14 years with too many flaws to count. Governments can regulate it to death.
You:
Gold is most used by governments as collateral against loans to other governments. Because hey do not want to deal with Bitcoin's (current) volatility for loans, that is understandable.
Empty space: Bitcoin - 14 years with too many flaws to count. Governments can regulate it to death.
You:
Gold is most used by governments as collateral against loans to other governments. Because hey do not want to deal with Bitcoin's (current) volatility for loans, that is understandable.
No comment, not because I agree but because it's not worth my time to explain.
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Yeah, bitcoin is about to get it's baby teeth knocked out by reality.
- Power failure = no bitcoin.
- Power costs get too high to sustain infrastructure = no bitcoin.
- Internet outage = no bitcoin.
- No electronic device = no bitcoin.
- Miners don't accept transaction = no bitcoin.
- You lose your income to pay for electric, internet, phone service = no bitcoin.
- Government takes over any of these major things = no bitcoin.
You:
You conveniently ignore the fact that I have refuted your non-confiscation claim about Gold:
- Government sends a warrant against you = no gold, bitcoin, or any other asset.
Me: I hide my gold at an undisclosed location, or in my house... Please, tell me where it is... confiscate it and it's yours. bitcoin is on a PUBLIC LEDGER... How many people know I have gold if I walk into a coin shop or buy from an individual on the street, or sell to an individual on the street? NONE. How many people know when your bitcoin exchanges hands? EVERYONE - PUBLIC LEDGER! When someone purchases, or cashes out, AML/KYC laws are right there waiting... Gold doesn't suffer the burden of having 24/7 surveillance. I can buy it without giving my personal info, I can sell it just the same. Somewhere, at the very least beginning point cryptos have entrances and exits that have armed guards, metal detectors, 24/7 watch dogs... And you think Gold is somehow the same in that regard? LOL. You haven't refuted anything with logic or common sense. Power goes out or internet goes out, what do you honestly have? The simple unadulterated truth is, NOTHING, you have nothing! - FACT. Power goes out, internet goes out and I have gold... I have that barbarous relic that you undermined, meanwhile you have nothing to give, and nothing to take... Your store of value, then becomes a store of nothingness, you have nothing in your hands to hold on to.
Take for example I have a girlfriend in real life, and you have a long distance girlfriend... We both claim we have a girlfriend and depending on how you look at it, that's true for both of us. Take into consideration I'm with my girlfriend everyday, and all you can do is videochat yours... Then one day you find out that your online girlfriend is really my in person girlfriend that I sleep with everynight, she tells me what a sucker you are, sending her money, and meanwhile shes giving it to me...
Question: Who has the girlfriend? Who gets to touch her? Who holds her everynight? who has sex with her? - Same analogy for money, if YOU DON'T HOLD IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT!
Answer: I have the girlfriend, you have NOTHING!
You:
Besides, we are going to a future where everybody in the world has access to electricity and the internet (Bitcoin cannot be censored). So Bitcoin was literally created for the future.
Me: Lets simply ignore all those without power, and in alot of third world countries intermittent power outage and complete power failures have become more commonplace, but because you and I have electric, that must mean we all do... HAHA! Bitcoin cannot be censored? I actually thought you were serious but then I quickly realized you can't be serious. This has to be a joke... Again, I use to be a bitcoin miner... The miners can refuse transactions for any number of reasons. If I don't want to take your transaction, I don't have to. However, if the government decides to come in and take over all the mining operations and centralize the entire project like they have been doing in various fashions, you now are at a loss for words or able to argue completely. If the government doesn't want it to take place (online), then it won't! They have that power to change what you imagined was a store of value to a store of nothing, with a few laws, and a few armed men to come in and take over everything.
Me:
Gold is a thing of the past, it's also a thing of the present, and future... Again, here you do prematurely judging, myself and others... How many times do you need to be taught a lesson? You think because I only have 41 posts that makes you more knowledgeable? All that means is you spend a lot more time arguing online than actually working in real life.
Me:
Lets quickly look up how fast and frequently the governments and banks in those countries are buying physical precious metals... And lets compare to their crypto holdings.. ouch, speechless now? Gonna tell everyone the government doesn't understand or is somehow naive? When the fact is you're the one that's been completely manipulated and brainwashed into thinking you have something, the fact is you have nothing but an empty bag - until your bitcoin is cashed out.
You: And gold depends on whether people are willing to sell it to you (custodial wallets do not count since it's not even your gold). It's a closed circle of adoption.
Me: Anyone can buy gold... It's dependent on supply and demand, gold actually has real world uses and utility (intrinsic value) outside of being a monetary instrument. Bitcoin has no utility other than to store information, it has no intrinsic value. And you're going to tell me that something that has intrinsic value is a thing of the past, and something that has none is a store of value? I am almost to the point of calling you a lost cause. I never imagined someone could be as slow as the level of incoherent arguments that you are displaying here.
I can do this all day with you. If you are on a tight schedule because you are in a rush to go find a fallout shelter to save yourself from an imaginary collapse, then that's on you. 99.99% of other people do not share your opinion about economic collapse.
- Power failure = no bitcoin.
- Power costs get too high to sustain infrastructure = no bitcoin.
- Internet outage = no bitcoin.
- No electronic device = no bitcoin.
- Miners don't accept transaction = no bitcoin.
- You lose your income to pay for electric, internet, phone service = no bitcoin.
- Government takes over any of these major things = no bitcoin.
You:
You conveniently ignore the fact that I have refuted your non-confiscation claim about Gold:
- Government sends a warrant against you = no gold, bitcoin, or any other asset.
Me: I hide my gold at an undisclosed location, or in my house... Please, tell me where it is... confiscate it and it's yours. bitcoin is on a PUBLIC LEDGER... How many people know I have gold if I walk into a coin shop or buy from an individual on the street, or sell to an individual on the street? NONE. How many people know when your bitcoin exchanges hands? EVERYONE - PUBLIC LEDGER! When someone purchases, or cashes out, AML/KYC laws are right there waiting... Gold doesn't suffer the burden of having 24/7 surveillance. I can buy it without giving my personal info, I can sell it just the same. Somewhere, at the very least beginning point cryptos have entrances and exits that have armed guards, metal detectors, 24/7 watch dogs... And you think Gold is somehow the same in that regard? LOL. You haven't refuted anything with logic or common sense. Power goes out or internet goes out, what do you honestly have? The simple unadulterated truth is, NOTHING, you have nothing! - FACT. Power goes out, internet goes out and I have gold... I have that barbarous relic that you undermined, meanwhile you have nothing to give, and nothing to take... Your store of value, then becomes a store of nothingness, you have nothing in your hands to hold on to.
Take for example I have a girlfriend in real life, and you have a long distance girlfriend... We both claim we have a girlfriend and depending on how you look at it, that's true for both of us. Take into consideration I'm with my girlfriend everyday, and all you can do is videochat yours... Then one day you find out that your online girlfriend is really my in person girlfriend that I sleep with everynight, she tells me what a sucker you are, sending her money, and meanwhile shes giving it to me...
Question: Who has the girlfriend? Who gets to touch her? Who holds her everynight? who has sex with her? - Same analogy for money, if YOU DON'T HOLD IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT!
Answer: I have the girlfriend, you have NOTHING!
You:
Besides, we are going to a future where everybody in the world has access to electricity and the internet (Bitcoin cannot be censored). So Bitcoin was literally created for the future.
Me: Lets simply ignore all those without power, and in alot of third world countries intermittent power outage and complete power failures have become more commonplace, but because you and I have electric, that must mean we all do... HAHA! Bitcoin cannot be censored? I actually thought you were serious but then I quickly realized you can't be serious. This has to be a joke... Again, I use to be a bitcoin miner... The miners can refuse transactions for any number of reasons. If I don't want to take your transaction, I don't have to. However, if the government decides to come in and take over all the mining operations and centralize the entire project like they have been doing in various fashions, you now are at a loss for words or able to argue completely. If the government doesn't want it to take place (online), then it won't! They have that power to change what you imagined was a store of value to a store of nothing, with a few laws, and a few armed men to come in and take over everything.
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Gold is a thing of the past, used only by lenders, and dinosaurs who are unable to appreciate the profound implications of bitcoin (like Peter Schiff and you).
Me:
Gold is a thing of the past, it's also a thing of the present, and future... Again, here you do prematurely judging, myself and others... How many times do you need to be taught a lesson? You think because I only have 41 posts that makes you more knowledgeable? All that means is you spend a lot more time arguing online than actually working in real life.
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You see Ukraine's internet being controlled by Russia, is bitcoin dying there? No.
What about in Afghanistan, where crypto is banned there? No.
China? No.
Russia? Hell no...
What about in Afghanistan, where crypto is banned there? No.
China? No.
Russia? Hell no...
Me:
Lets quickly look up how fast and frequently the governments and banks in those countries are buying physical precious metals... And lets compare to their crypto holdings.. ouch, speechless now? Gonna tell everyone the government doesn't understand or is somehow naive? When the fact is you're the one that's been completely manipulated and brainwashed into thinking you have something, the fact is you have nothing but an empty bag - until your bitcoin is cashed out.
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bitcoin is fragile, and relies on so many other things to be able to function. Gold is just there, as it always has been, waiting to prove you wrong.
You: And gold depends on whether people are willing to sell it to you (custodial wallets do not count since it's not even your gold). It's a closed circle of adoption.
Me: Anyone can buy gold... It's dependent on supply and demand, gold actually has real world uses and utility (intrinsic value) outside of being a monetary instrument. Bitcoin has no utility other than to store information, it has no intrinsic value. And you're going to tell me that something that has intrinsic value is a thing of the past, and something that has none is a store of value? I am almost to the point of calling you a lost cause. I never imagined someone could be as slow as the level of incoherent arguments that you are displaying here.
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As the world goes into an economic collapse even more you think that's going to be sustained?
By what, your hopes and dreams? You gonna force the people that have no clue about what bitcoin is to use it?
By what, your hopes and dreams? You gonna force the people that have no clue about what bitcoin is to use it?
I can do this all day with you. If you are on a tight schedule because you are in a rush to go find a fallout shelter to save yourself from an imaginary collapse, then that's on you. 99.99% of other people do not share your opinion about economic collapse.
You share the herd mentality, and like all herds they are actively being led to slaughter. I'll take my chances and follow the retards that are stupid and don't understand bitcoin, yet they keep buying gold and giving bitcoin back to idiots like you. Please, don't waste my time again by taking up space on my computer screen with your nonsensical arguments.
Time and experience will show you people.
You think the governments don't know or understand whats going on?
Why would they hoard precious metals and auction bitcoin, you think they are in the dark on this or you people on these forums are somehow more educated and intelligent than the people running the show from behind the scenes?
You all have a rude awakening coming.
You think the governments don't know or understand whats going on?
Why would they hoard precious metals and auction bitcoin, you think they are in the dark on this or you people on these forums are somehow more educated and intelligent than the people running the show from behind the scenes?
You all have a rude awakening coming.
Worldwide, the ANNUAL manufacture of high-tech products (PCs, cell phones, tablet computers and other electronic and electrical devices) uses some $21 billion worth of gold and silver (320 tons and 7,500 tons, respectively).
...that can NOT be recovered from the components unless you use hazardous metal extraction methods from the components such as liquefying them.
There's a reason why more end of life electronics end up in the landfill than in extraction laboratories. Because the cost to extract the gold from there is greater than the value of gold that is to be recovered. Besides it makes a lot of water pollution doing that anyway.
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What you're proposing is in fact, ridiculous. $21 billion/year isn't negligible. That's just in electronics alone, not counting all it's many other real world uses where it cannot ever be recovered once it's used. Once it's been put into electronics if those electronics are thrown away, the precious metals that were used in said electronics can never be recovered.
And even you admit that they cannot be recovered. So why then, are people not using phones and PCs as a currency?
Because they have none of the properties of one, that's why.PS. cutive_Order_6102]Gold can be confiscated!
Bitcoins cannot be confiscated!
Because they can be moved to a wallet whose private keys are owned by someone in another country.
So your point about gold being untraceable is irrelevant. I can simply CoinJoin my bitcoins and all traces will be broken.
You, on the other hand, can't CoinJoin your gold or silver, can you? No, because you can bet your bullions that they have serial numbers engraved on them.
People generally sell broken phones and computers and other electronics for parts, ebay is a prime example. In many cases people save the broken PCB's to extract the precious metals...
Gold has never been actually physically taken from citizens here in the USA, and even if they tried, people can come up with alot more creative ways of hiding them that make it not worth it for the governemtn to even try...
Bitcoin can in fact be seized, if hackers can steal it, then the government can steal it... with alot more ease than physically trying to find someones precious metals....
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/04/22/seized-silk-road-bitcoin-to-clear-ross-ulbrichts-183-million-debt/
Bitcoin is on a public ledger, s ever if you coinjoin or mixed, chainalysis can work with law enforcement and seize them...
As a matter of fact, you're a genius... if only humans invented this thing called a smelter to melt precious metals down so there wouldn't be any serial numbers.... Cmon bro, what are you like 12?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
That's ridiculous. Gold and silver are good electrical conductors, and that's the only reason they are used in electronics. Bitcoin is not an element that's why you don't see any bitcoin in your electronic equipments.
The value of the quantity of gold and silver inside your device's is negligible, and for all practical purposes is much less than 1 mBTC.
Worldwide, the ANNUAL manufacture of high-tech products (PCs, cell phones, tablet computers and other electronic and electrical devices) uses some $21 billion worth of gold and silver (320 tons and 7,500 tons, respectively).
What you're proposing is in fact, ridiculous. $21 billion/year isn't negligible. That just in electronics alone, not counting all its many other real world uses where it cannot ever be recovered once it's used.
Just look at what we are doing with BTC today, we trade, buy something using BTC and keep it in our wallet. When we fund the charity foundation using BTC, it is accepted so it's got to be more than just a store of value. Regardless of what this guy is saying, digital assets will be adopted and will be used widely that governments today are grabbing.
Governments are auctioning off bitcoin to fools like you, while purchasing precious metals in record breaking numbers... Are you being willfully ignorant of the facts? Google how much Gold China has purchased, or Russia...
There's a reason why they are selling it to you... To track everything you do. You're about to lose the little bit of anonymity that cash brought, now that they are phasing cash out and going digital, you'll be 100% spied on and you don't even seem to care...
At least Gold and Silver still offer 100% privacy. Don't even start with monero or dash that. Its all been reverse engineered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
What are you trying to say here? Would have been better if you explained a little what's happening on the video instead of making us go through the whole video.Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
But right now, at the current state, bitcoin is a store of value. People are using it more as a store of value than as a regular currency for making day to day transaction. Look at how many people are holding bitcoin and how many of them made a good fortune out of it. Maybe in the future when bitcoin and crypto currencies become main stream, people will use it as a regular currency.
"Store" of "Value"
A store is a place for something. Value is the worth we assign something. An object with value has some kind of tangible worth.
It may be food. It may be real estate. It may even be a collectible, in which case the value is more subjective than objective.
You may see value in a Picasso. I may not. In a zombie apocalypse, you may still see value in that Picasso, but I will prefer the objective value of a bazooka (with things to shoot from it).
If something has value, it can be exchanged with another person for something of value - and it isn't always the same thing that gets exchanged.
Money can be exchanged for food, for example.
Food can be exchanged for guns, and so on.
Suppose you live on a farm. You can harvest food from that farm. The farm remains a store of value as long as you produce food. In fact, everything involved with growing and harvesting that food is a store of value because every item is needed to create the food.
Aluminum is a store of value. We need aluminum to make some of the machinery to farm the land. Water, seeds, land - these are all stores of value.
So, if something is going to be a "store of value", it should hold that value under all but the most remote of circumstances. Its objective and subjective value may fluctuate, but over the long term, it will maintain much of that value.
The real estate market crashed in 2009, but it has recovered. Over the long term, real estate not only holds its value but its value also increases. That's because the land has many ways that value can be extracted from it, and because there is a finite amount of it. The value of that asset is stored.
Bitcoin Is Not A Store Of Anything
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It is not backed by any asset. It has no collectible value. It isn't even a tangible thing you can hold in your hand. It's vapor, living out there as 1s and 0s.
Talk about a ghost in a machine!
Bitcoin is not a store of or for anything. If it is a store of value, I should be able to convert fiat currency into bitcoin and bitcoin will maintain that value.
That does not happen.
Here's Bitcoin's track record at maintaining the value of US dollars over the last 3 ½ years.
https://ibb.co/mczqpm5
That chart is not maintaining anything. It's incredibly volatile.
Bitcoin's volatility is why it is not a store of value. It is also not a store of value because nobody needs it.
Maybe you believe that "one day" Bitcoin will stabilize and become a store of value.
Great! But why would you hold any Bitcoin until that day arrives?
If that day comes, what if it ends up at a 1-1 exchange ratio with the US dollar and you bought it at $8,569? Not only will you have realized Bitcoin wasn't a store of value, but you'll also be poor, and very angry.
You will also have opportunity cost - what you could have earned with that money while you "maintained" it in Bitcoin.
Means of Exchange
I want to make it clear that there is a big difference between being a store of value and being a means of exchange.
Money is not a store of value. It is a means of exchange. Money does not retain its value because of inflation.
Bitcoin is a means of exchange, but not a reliable one.
The problem is that it is a worse means of exchange than any other stable country's currency because of its volatility.
By the time you execute a currency conversion into bitcoin, and then into another currency, there is no guarantee the value will be maintained during the exchange (discounting commissions).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
I don't know what do you mean by yours words. But I think there shouldn't be any compare on gold , silver vs Bitcoin .Because they are individually valuable gold and silver in their separate places, they have been important assets for ages era's and I think they will not depreciate until the end of the world, but will increase in value. On the other hand Bitcoin was invented digitally just like fiat currency, so I think comparing Bitcoin to gold silver is completely foolish .Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
Agree, because there is no comparison. 6,000+ years vs. a 14 yr old man made invention.
Is someone trying to trick you into thinking gold is a store of value?
Someone mined that gold and the miner of it or its designer ate food.
Gold is replaceable, most things are replaceable. You can't say something an store value when it's value has dropped in real terms since 2012 - we're around 2012 prices minus inflation. Gold can be replaced with copper and silver fairly easily when it needs to be. Platinum also makes for a good alternative to gold (along with many other metals).
Don't be tricked into buying something that's over inflated and artificially physically scarce. Find something like a business to actually invest in instead if you want to protect your wealth - most assets are risky buys though so remember to diversify where reasonable.
Someone mined that gold and the miner of it or its designer ate food.
Gold is replaceable, most things are replaceable. You can't say something an store value when it's value has dropped in real terms since 2012 - we're around 2012 prices minus inflation. Gold can be replaced with copper and silver fairly easily when it needs to be. Platinum also makes for a good alternative to gold (along with many other metals).
Don't be tricked into buying something that's over inflated and artificially physically scarce. Find something like a business to actually invest in instead if you want to protect your wealth - most assets are risky buys though so remember to diversify where reasonable.
Gold is replaceable... With what exactly? 6000+ years of monetary history disagrees with you, and most other people posting here today.
All due respect, I personally prefer to follow the world banks and governments since they always manage to retain control (throughout history), and no offense to you, they are alot more organized and quite frankly, more intelligent than the herd mentality that you, and so many other people share today.
Gold is only formed when a star explodes, lets see you replicate that, or explain how? Tricked? Artificially scarce? I really don't care if you buy gold or bitcoin, however banks and governments prefer if you didn't buy gold... They would like to buy it instead, as they have all (ALL WORLD BANKS AND GOVERNMENTS) have been purchasing more reserves in record numbers than ever before. Maybe they know something that you don't? You think you can somehow become more powerful than a world government using a crypto-currency? Show me...
Value is relative, gold has MAINTAINED it's purchasing power, it offers stability in ANY AND ALL economic situations, that's a fact that the world governments and banks seem to be alot more privy to than you. What an ounce of gold purchased 2000 years ago it is still able to purchase the same today in terms of goods and services. If it could be replaced by something else, then why hasn't it?
Let's talk about artificial since you mentioned it... JP Morgan as well as numerous other banks have been artificially suppressing the price with paper derivatives. They have been brought up multiple times on price manipulation. They are keeping the physical price artificially low so they can buy up as much physical as possible. Meanwhile your government auctions off bitcoin... You think they are dumb, or you are somehow smarter than them? How come they don't see it as valuable as you and alot of other sheep today? I can't wait to see the look on your face when your left holding empty space...
What you're trying to convey. TV, computers and phones were the store of value. There is a difference between store of value and the devices. Innovation doesn't have limits, if gold and silver weren't found we could've made the same innovative devices with something else for sure. Maybe we don't get the perfect outcome as gold and silver, but there'll be a solution for it.
The rare availability makes it more valuable, with bitcoin the limited supply makes it more valueable. Being a store of value is simple, as bitcoin carries a value it is considered as store of value. Even if the credit goes to gold and silver it isn't a big thing.
The rare availability makes it more valuable, with bitcoin the limited supply makes it more valueable. Being a store of value is simple, as bitcoin carries a value it is considered as store of value. Even if the credit goes to gold and silver it isn't a big thing.
Electronics buy and large all require silver and gold for their electrical conductivity properties that other metals cannot compete with when it comes to size and efficiency, if you choose lets say copper for example to replace silver, your electronic equipment would be roughly 11% larger and heavier and 7% less energy efficient. Lets try replacing mining equipment with copper instead of silver, and tell me how much more space would be required, and how much less efficient the equipment would be. The same basic principle applies across the board for all electronics, as you mentioned there won't be a perfect outcome. However, supply and demand dictate that consumers the world over require efficiency.
Case and point, people demand compact, efficient devices. It's general supply and demand. Sure bitcoin is scarce relative to other cryptocurrencies to some degree, but what happens to the value if the infrastructure becomes highly inefficient (which it is if you look at how much energy it consumes in order to compute each block today). It was a great idea, but physically speaking you cannot hold on to it. Take into account power or internet outages that are ongoing (which is the case in alot of countries suffering from economic poverty), what's it worth at that point when you cannot send or receive payments? What's the solution? Additionally, what if consumer electronic devices are too expensive for everyday people to afford, how will they transact?
Store of value can only be experienced through long term value stability. Bitcoin is unpredictable, and volatile. If and when it becomes stable (price wise), then and only then does it earn the right to be declared "store of value".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.
# When Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin
And the unanswered question,
Is why did Satoshi desert bitcoin?
Did he realized it contained a fatal PoW flaw and choose to leave without informing the community.
Finally someone here that's actually critically thinking without the cult mentality.
Re: Accurate bitcoin price prediction - Go ahead, try trolling from your basement.
Wow, another genius who managed to predict that the Bitcoin price would go higher after that historic dump in March 2020 due to the COVID19 woes and the fact the Bitcoin halving even happened 6 days earlier
I have subscribed to the channel, when signal for another moon sir?
I have subscribed to the channel, when signal for another moon sir?
My YouTube channel was seized. But I'll make sure to message you months before it happens. If I said in 2 years then I would understand your point, however I said between 7-8 months and that's exactly when it went up... Lucky guess, coincidence? Or maybe just a keen understanding of what drives the price.
Bitcoin had survived more than 11 years.It’s not easy for the digital coin,to survive for this big years.From the beginning,when the price of bitcoin around 10$ .No one believe the bitcoin as the investment tool .Even they are not ready to accept the bitcoin as the assets to inverse their money like the stock market.
How are those English and grammar lessons treating you?
Better than your insight into the direction crypto-currencies are heading. It's ponzi scheme. Try beating trading bots and miners, have fun at the bottom of the pyramid where they will put you when all is said and done. Your wallets will be hacked and taken in the not too distant future. Mark my words. The NSA is going to take everything. You ever played musical chairs? This era we are heading into will teach you a potentially valuable lesson.
Re: Accurate bitcoin price prediction - Go ahead, try trolling from your basement.
I'm responding to this through the headline. Because i know vividly that their is no prediction of cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin is hundred percent accurate, because all the preferable prediction of cryptocurrency to people is assumptions. Because from my perception Bitcoin is been determined on the increment of price the restructured of the market by the investors.
Instead of watching the video and being proven wrong you sit in your predetermined bubble trolling from the sidelines with nothing to back your claims.
Actually, investors don't determine the price trading bots do. You won't beat AI - how do you think I was correct about the actual price 2 x in a row when it went up? Please save the mindless jargon.
Also I must stand to differ with your comparison on Bitcoin and Gold. Gold is a natural resource from the earth crust, and even the most experienced Gold miners can not determine the maximum supply or availability of Gold, but Bitcoin is fixed at 21 million. They also differ in their system of mining.
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Wow... 21 million of a digital asset as you call it that's already suffered countless hacks, most of which people are completely unaware of. Exchanges, as well as the most experienced individuals having their digital currency stolen or seized by hackers and governments. Public ledger - I can see exactly where vs. you not having any clue about where my precious metals are. 6000 years of a physical hard asset that you can actually hold when the lights go out that has lasted through every collapse known to the world, vs a 14 year old man made invention. And if history is any indicator of who's going to be correct, let time and experience show you yet again.
Lastly, you won't see anyone using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter unless computers, phones, mining equipment (which require those natural resources from the earth's crust) in order to work are used in that equipment, so in that aspect the precious metals are used constantly to supply you with computers, and ALL electronics equipment. Without gold & silver being used, you have no bitcoin - as simply put as I can explain. Those precious metals are what make your crypto-currencies possible. Pay attention to the bigger picture, and not just some narrow minded view because you want to see bitcoin move a certain way.
No Gold & Silver = no electronics = no bitcoin. So lets review whats more important here.
[/quote]
Wow... 21 million of a digital asset as you call it that's already suffered countless hacks, most of which people are completely unaware of. Exchanges, as well as the most experienced individuals having their digital currency stolen or seized by hackers and governments. Public ledger - I can see exactly where vs. you not having any clue about where my precious metals are. 6000 years of a physical hard asset that you can actually hold when the lights go out that has lasted through every collapse known to the world, vs a 14 year old man made invention. And if history is any indicator of who's going to be correct, let time and experience show you yet again.
Lastly, you won't see anyone using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter unless computers, phones, mining equipment (which require those natural resources from the earth's crust) in order to work are used in that equipment, so in that aspect the precious metals are used constantly to supply you with computers, and ALL electronics equipment. Without gold & silver being used, you have no bitcoin - as simply put as I can explain. Those precious metals are what make your crypto-currencies possible. Pay attention to the bigger picture, and not just some narrow minded view because you want to see bitcoin move a certain way.
No Gold & Silver = no electronics = no bitcoin. So lets review whats more important here.