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Showing 7 of 7 results by Predatron
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: A proposed naming standard for a satoshi based economy
by
Predatron
on 01/03/2018, 03:01:08 UTC

I don't think the first four are necessary. More terms equals more confusion, so it's best to stick to as few denominations as possible. Saying 1k sats is much simpler and less confusing than saying 1 kilosat, for example.

I could get behind megatoshi, but isn't cBTC (centi-BTC) already in (ableit rare and informal) use?

I agree that less is probably more. However, we need to keep in mind that the current ratio of BTC to USD is probably not going to be the same in a year. If bitcoin gets to $100,000 then 1 megatoshi will be too large of a denomination to work with. (also I hadn't heard of cBTC, but that seems tedious to say...)

I'm trying to think of this more as 1,5,10,20 dollar bills, which of course don't have a unique name for each denomination aside from the number. So under the premise that 1 satoshi ~ 1 penny, 100 satoshis seems like it should be the "base" whole amount? Unfortunately the hectoshi is probably my least favorite out of the bunch...

Maybe as penny is to cent we need a satoshi to....?
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: A proposed naming standard for a satoshi based economy
by
Predatron
on 01/03/2018, 02:41:52 UTC
what is your purpose to make such a name?

Right now, if I want to buy a coffee with bitcoin, the charge would be around 0.0004 BTC. This is not an amount people can easily grasp, nor is it simple from an accounting standpoint. A much better approach would be to denominate in satoshis, which would render a price of around 40,000 kilosats for my coffee. Its easier to comprehend a whole number.
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Topic OP
A proposed naming standard for a satoshi based economy
by
Predatron
on 01/03/2018, 02:05:16 UTC
So, obviously these terms are going to come in to play in coming years. And I think there should be some sort of standard for what we call our money in a satoshi based economy, and I'm not a fan of how ethereum has done it. So my proposal is quite simple, just draw from the metric system. The base being of course: 1 satoshi.

0.00000001 = satoshi
0.00000010 = dekatoshi / dekasat
0.00000100 = hectoshi / hesat
0.00001000 = kiltoshi / kilosat
0.01000000 = megatoshi / megasat

Just an idea. Let me know what you guys think.
Post
Topic
Board Development & Technical Discussion
Re: So I just read the LN white paper...
by
Predatron
on 04/02/2018, 02:11:55 UTC

According to my calendar, 2017 has already passed.

Gee thanks, hadn't noticed.

The paper is specifically talking about raising the block size limit with a hard fork. They are going with the argument that miners might be opposed to such a hard fork and users not. So the solution to that is for miners to implement a soft limit after such a hard fork goes through.

Ah ok I see, thanks.

No, nothing stops people from doing that. But likewise, nothing is stopping people from bypassing that "master-node" and directly connecting to the person they wish to transact with.

Except for the cost of opening a new channel (which shouldn't be more than a couple dollars I think). Right? Just saying it seems like even a small fee would deter people from opening many p2p connections when you can just have one open that serves all your needs with minimal fees. Obviously LN is going to need one more layer on top as an end-user GUI/app that makes this simple so grandma can use it, just trying to visualize that.

Do you know if there's a more recent version of the Lightning Network white paper?  The latest I've found is version 0.5.9.2 dated January 14, 2016.

Thanks for asking that, was going to myself as well. Here is the link that works to the latest protocol from achow101: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/

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Edit: quote attribution
Post
Topic
Board Development & Technical Discussion
Re: So I just read the LN white paper...
by
Predatron
on 04/02/2018, 00:27:06 UTC

These are the only two soft forks that are necessary for LN to work on Bitcoin, and both have activated.


Perfect thanks for clarifying that!

What they are describing is the soft limit on block sizes. It is not invalid to create a block that is less than say, 500 kB. However the miners may collude and decide that they won't mine any blocks larger than 500 kB. This does not break consensus rules and all non-mining full node will still accept blocks larger than 500 kB. Just the miners won't produce a block larger than 500 kB and if they see one, they will reject it thus it won't go into the blockchain. This is effectively a miner enforced soft fork.

Right, but in the example they were talking about block sizes over 1MB, which as I understand it is a hard limit.

Also, is there anything to stop everyone from connecting to just one "master-node" on the network, thus making all transactions just one hop to anyone else? I presume this master-node would need enough BTC to handle the liquidity of everyone, but that is theoretically possible.
Post
Topic
Board Development & Technical Discussion
Merits 1 from 1 user
So I just read the LN white paper...
by
Predatron
on 03/02/2018, 23:59:43 UTC
⭐ Merited by ETFbitcoin (1)
... and I'm a little concerned. Of course I could be misunderstanding things,
but there are several references to soft forks being needed:

However,  Lightning Network’s bidirectional micropayment channel requires
the malleability soft-fork described in Appendix A to enable near-infinite scalability
while mitigating risks of intermediate node default.

The   Lightning   Network   uses   a   SIGHASH_NOINPUT   transaction   to
spend  from  this  2-of-2  Funding  Transaction  output,  as  it  is  necessary  to
spend from a transaction for which the signatures are not yet exchanged.
SIGHASH_NOINPUT, implemented using a soft-fork, ensures transactions
can be spent from before it is signed by all parties, as transactions would
need  to  be  signed  to  get  a  transaction  ID  without  new  sighash  flags.

Mark   Freidenbach   has   proposed   that   Sequence   Numbers   can   be   en-
forcible  via  a  relative  block  maturity  of  the  parent  transaction  via  a
soft-fork[12].    This  would  allow  some  basic  ability  to  ensure  some  form
of  relative  block  confirmation  time  lock  on  the  spending  script.


With systemic and potentially fatal errors if they are not implemented:

9.6    Inability to Make Necessary Soft-Forks
Changes are necessary to bitcoin, such as the malleability soft-fork.  Addi-
tionally, if this system becomes popular, it will be necessary for the system
to  securely  transact  with  many  users  and  some  kind  of  structure  like  a
blockheight timestop will be desirable.  This system assumes such changes
to enable Lightning Network to exist entirely, as well as soft-forks ensuring
the security is robust against attackers will occur.  While the system may
continue  to  operate  with  only  some  time  lock  and  malleability  soft-forks,
there will be necessary soft-forks regarding systemic risks.  Without proper
community  foresight,  an  inability  to  establish  a  timestop  or  similar  func-
tion will allow systemic attacks to take place and may not be recognized as
imperative until an attack actually occurs.


And then it goes on to say that the block size will need to be increased anyway!

10    Block Size Increases and Consensus
If we presume that a decentralized payment network exists and one user will
make  3  blockchain  transactions  per  year  on  average,  Bitcoin  will  be  able
52
to  support  over  35  million  users  with  1MB  blocks  in  ideal  circumstances
(assuming 2000 transactions/MB, or 500 bytes/Tx).  This is quite limited,
and an increase of the block size may be necessary to support everyone in
the world using Bitcoin.  A simple increase of the block size would be a hard
fork,  meaning  all  nodes  will  need  to  update  their  wallets  if  they  wish  to
participate in the network with the larger blocks.
While it may appear as though this system will mitigate the block size
increases in the short term, if it achieves global scale, it will necessitate a
block size increase in the long term.  Creating a credible tool to help prevent
blockchain  spam  designed  to  encourage  transactions  to  timeout  becomes
imperative.


And the solution to this makes no sense to me:

To mitigate timelock spam vulnerabilities, non-miner and miners’ con-
sensus rules may also differ if the miners’ consensus rules are more restrictive.
Non-miners may accept blocks over 1MB, while miners may have different
soft-caps on block sizes.  If a block size is above that cap, then that is viewed
as an invalid block by other miners, but not by non-miners.  The miners will
only build the chain on blocks which are valid according to the agreed-upon
soft-cap.  This permits miners to agree on raising the block size limit with-
out requiring frequent hard-forks from clients, so long as the amount raised
by miners does not go over the clients’ hard limit.  This mitigates the risk
of mass expiry of transactions at once.  All transactions which are not re-
deemed via Exercise Settlement (ES) may have a very high fee attached, and
miners may use a consensus rule whereby those transactions are exempted
from the soft-cap, making it very likely the correct transactions will enter
the blockchain.


So my question is, how can you accept blocks that are not accepted by the miners?
And, what is the status of these required soft forks?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][SegWit2X] Together we will see a business through.
by
Predatron
on 28/12/2017, 21:15:01 UTC
Been following this thread for a couple days... I must say this is forking hilarious.