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I can see your love for for Civ 1&2, but yeah an extremely good and nice idea. Already looking forward to try it.
Could you give any details about the development of the game?
Could you give any details about the development of the game?
Re: United we stand, divided we fall - the coming rise of cryptofiat
Great. A new all powerful bogeyman. Cryptofiat.
What are the essential characteristics of this new fictional threat? I note they have not been described anywhere up thread.
What are the essential characteristics of this new fictional threat? I note they have not been described anywhere up thread.
It's something like Ripple, just by the gov. It is not really about the blockchain or the decentralized anture of Bitcoin. Cryptofiat only means, that they will probably use a blockchain system to keep track of all dollars, euros etc to get the same transactions speeds and fees, which would render Bitcoin useless for the normal user. Hence, even economic professors state this[1]
[1]One recent example: Futuremag on arte, german/french tv station with a recent (and very positive) segment about BTC: German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV2yOYhTD-g French: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmpmUFlK9tg&list=UU2u8DRz3KhzXo9h3g__ZhzQ
Re: United we stand, divided we fall - the coming rise of cryptofiat
A really great writeup and definetly true. Governments (well, not only govs, everybody) fear the loss of control. Idealism would be a soultion but in the current cynical days of political movements, this will be hard.
Idealism was always what brought the society on the next level, both in good ways and in bad ways, but generally you can say, that progressive movements (for equality and more freedom(for the 'small guy', not companys inherently)) are normally in advantage for society.
Let's hope, atleast for once, that, instead of a system, that only tries to gain power and survive, we get a good government, idealistic driven, which tries to do it for the people and a greater good, a government that will immigrate and bid it's, the own powers threatening, advancement welcome, instead of fighting it (Bitcoin)
Thanks for the writeup David
Idealism was always what brought the society on the next level, both in good ways and in bad ways, but generally you can say, that progressive movements (for equality and more freedom(for the 'small guy', not companys inherently)) are normally in advantage for society.
Let's hope, atleast for once, that, instead of a system, that only tries to gain power and survive, we get a good government, idealistic driven, which tries to do it for the people and a greater good, a government that will immigrate and bid it's, the own powers threatening, advancement welcome, instead of fighting it (Bitcoin)
Thanks for the writeup David
Disclaimer: I don't use Twitter or any other "social media"
Actually you do at this exact moment. Forums are also a form of social media or "Web 2.0", which describes, that users now interact with each other, though forums or news-agregators (like reddit or HN) aren't the classical form of social media
Why do you attack me? I got out at the right time which is the absolute best thing that one could possibly do (improves holdings of the coin greatly when getting back in lower).
@OP even though I don't like you I have to agree with you for once.
Monero should be banned here so they finally get it.
Monero should be banned here so they finally get it.
Yes, I seriously think this way. Neglecting to open an own forum and posting there (like all other major coins do!) is extremely bad for the health of the coin. People hate the coin and I don't want to see that. Unfortunately a lot of Monero supporters aren't helping it by constantly attacking other users. It's a mess.
Problem: This only really works with coins, that have are in the top 10 in terms of market capitalization. Otherwise the forums normally die pretty fast and the coins also get less courtesy in the general crypto community. Not falling out of scope is really important to attract attention and therefore adoption, whch is the ultimate goal of a currency
PS: Also gmaxwell and Co rant about other stuff and point out mistakes/criticize them
Not sure what you mean by this, but pretty sure GMaxwell is a supporter of the CryptoNote architecture and of the Monero project but is rightly wary of the inherited codebase. In fact his enthusiasm for Bytecoin (before the ninja-mine scam surfaced) was the main reason I took an interest in CN-based currencies. Has he become a critic of Monero devs?It was a general observation. Yeah, gmaxwell does quite like CN-like Ring signatures and has sometimes helped out the Monero project
https://web.archive.org/web/20140927204157/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=300712
Very nice. Fucking moron.
* I ask you for your linkedIn profile in order for everyone to see if you are capable of leading something important like XMR and you run like chicken lying through your teeth and are immediately called for it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.msg8888753#msg8888753
Also: How poor is this move? Instead of responding to othe's accusation (well, it's a fact tbh), you are distracting from it with an ad hominem attack
I could go on and on about you, but it would be wasting everyone's time. And you want to play "core team" and get paid by others for your time spent trolling on forums.
Almost everything you said is blatanty wrong, but I want to focus on this.
Only 1/4 of the core teams expenses are covered by donations (If you want, I can direct you to fluffy's and smooth's post) and their labor is NOT even calculated in this. They work on a completely voluntary basis and that's why they can do whatever the fuck they want. But instead they are paying hundreds of thousand dollar to mathematicians and freelancers to get this software from (pre-)alpha-state to a beta-state.
The function of the core team isn't even primarily developing, but instead managing the development of XMR by developing (in the theroetical sense) features and concepts, managing the donations and distirbuting it, do the marketing, assign ressources to tasks, etc.
PS: Also gmaxwell and Co rant about other stuff and point out mistakes/criticize them
--propaganda to protect his investment--
bcx = coinhumper = moneroman88
=Stoli regional sales manager
No, i doubt Bitcoinexpress has something todo with moneroman88
i think he got tricked into this shit like we all.https://web.archive.org/web/20140927202752/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=150933 Windjc - BBR PR guy and self proclaimed Risto hater
https://web.archive.org/web/20140927202513/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=377246 Moneroman88 - Anti Monero fake account
Looks more like it ;-)
Those are also nice:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140927204157/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=300712
https://web.archive.org/web/20140927204228/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44252
PS: Last active time is also a nice indicator
I just leave this here
If DNSCrypt is forced it's even worse. You've limited pool of participants to a much smaller number
fluffypony responded to this below
And the thing is you can't pay for your windows license using a cryptonote currency - that's just a pipe dream in a world where cryptonote has a large scale functioning economy. (how would you propose you receive the code back btw?)
This was just an example. I wanted to express that this can easily create conflicts with registered and/or known trademarks/names. Google won|t be able to choose @google as alias because so 13 year old kiddie chose to use it as his aliasPool operators can easily monetize alias generation service. Aliases could be traded OTC or via a third party service. This is the same situation we had and still have with domains where anyone is free to grab, if the technology takes off- (In which case both XMR and BBR holders will have big smiles on their face) squatters may stand a chance at turning a profit, just like the dotcom saga.
True, but it requires extra work/ an infrastructure to build. Also this is no 'real' free market and you can't expect to have low prices here. Why? Imagine a situation with Boolberry being as big as Bitcoin. In this situation the number of blocks is still enough, so that every new user could theoratically register themselves an alias.
Now the market/network share of pools is generated by the things they offer to miners, not what they offer on the alias side. This means, that big pools can cahrge arbitrary high fees to register an alias and everybody would go to the smaller pools, but they won't find enough blocks to give everyone an alias, which creates scarcity and with basic the most basic economic model (supply and demand) this will automatically increase the price for them (if the pool owners, don't raise them, then they will get reselled for a higher price). Because of this people will switch to the other pools, because they have to (the small pools don't find enough blocks, who can satisfy their demand, but then again increase the prices, because the users don't have any choice, but to register their alias there
EDIT: On a sidenote: Creating an arbitrary war between BBR and XMR is a poor move. The devs are working together to strengthen the CryptoNote technology and clean the codebase
I followed your hangout where you discussed that. It's pretty neat but comes with it's own set of concerns. eg Malicious resolvers, spoofing/poisoning attacks- -Most resolvers aren't using DNSCrypt, setting up alias requires registering/managing a domain and keeping it renewed so it's not decentralised or optimal from a privacy standpoint arguably, although it's at least cool if you imagine it will take off and you escape worrying about name disputes.
You have a lot more problems, if your standard resolver is malicious.
Also IIRC DNSCrypt is enforced as part of the protocol, which limits the number of DNS servers you can use, but the security benefits of this are bigger then the disadvantages
The disadvantages of the BBR alias implementation are obvious:
First of all you have to solo mine (or have supportive and generous pool operators), which will not work at a greater scale. Even at this stage, getting a block through solomining is unlikely and asking pool operators to do it, might work now, but with increasing adoption, pool operators won't be able to satisfy the demand.
- Wallet address aliasing: any wallet can be linked with symbolic name via special type extra record in coinbase. Block chain will control registered names uniqueness.
Namecoin is also avaiable to use with the OpenAlias system so this also removes another attack vector
Finally had a moment to more carefully read the model the Monero team had already done on unmasking the anonymity of the ring signatures:
http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
I can state confidently that my model was not considered by that paper and I believe my model is more powerful and can specifically lead to "chain reactions" which that paper did not find. And I may have a mitigation solution.
I will communicate the details to smooth via secure channel and we will analyze what I have.
http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
I can state confidently that my model was not considered by that paper and I believe my model is more powerful and can specifically lead to "chain reactions" which that paper did not find. And I may have a mitigation solution.
I will communicate the details to smooth via secure channel and we will analyze what I have.
It's great to hear everyone was able to calm down and now act reasonable and communicative. That you were such a popular target might source in your strong emotional involvation and your thin skin. As long as you/we are able to distinguish valid points and trolls and not get heaten up by latter, I see no reason, why a healthy relationship between CN devs (monero devs, CZ, jl777) won't be possible to maintain.
"Don't feed the trolls" is key
Anonymint doesn't seem to have any affiliation with Monero and he seems to be working his ass off. Even during dinner. As a core developer you are the equivalent of the CEO and in so you have the responsibility towards the share holders (investors) to be on top of this. If I was invested in a company where they hit some serious problems I'd be pretty pissed off if the CEO said he would hit the beach with his wife and stated there are other things in life that matter, not only this company. I would expect the CEO to be working at full speed. If he couldn't solve it himself he would be networking, talking to people who potentially could, speaking to investors trying to calm the market etc. Your reply was another fail in my eyes.
I have gotten paid 0 dollars for the hundreds of hours of work I've put into this coin, so I really don't have any obligation to anyone to do anything. I'm here because I like the work and the coin.
What's the mater with you developers? You have to believe in your product. Go all in. Don't sit here and say this is your hoby project. An anonymous crypto with the correct attributes has enormous potential. Show us your enthusiasm and commitment!
Most members of the core team work fulltime, but this isn't sustainable if they don't get paid.
AGAIN:
This is not a company
They don't benefit from a rising price
They don't get paid
You don't hold shares of the devteam, you hold coins
The devs are (theoratically) interchangeable
And following you, they should work 24/7, giving everything up, without getting paid, because the so-called "investors" only buy coins and don't donate?
EDIT: Maybe you could discuss the fix with one of the other core members (or rpietila), I think most of them appreciate what you're doing here.
None of them take me seriously. I am tired of this shit.
You are missing the part where I spent hours (and little sleep) with you going over your work on Sybil attacks and the part (which I posted several hours ago) where I said that I thought you had improved on our work. Very odd.
If you want to offer assistance, it is welcome. If you don't want to help, don't. Either way we could do with a little less drama.
I rather fancy the idea of publishing the sender of (most) every ring signature on the block chain instead at a future date of my choosing.
I warned you don't fuck with me.
I will make sure BBR has the mitigation ready assuming they are still cooperative with me and they don't give my mitigation to XMR.
You are not dealing with BCX any more. You are dealing with me. Capice.
"Stop playing poltical games!" That's something you said often enough in the altcoin observer and now you are doing the same. Everyone is appreciating and I already replied further up to that.
Nobody wants to fuck with you. I recommend taking a nap and rereading what fluffypony, smooth adn tacotime have written and what you've answered with. Maybe you see what I meant further up
Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.
How do you get that? There's been a claim with virtually no details, that we can neither refute or accept. So what are we meant to fix, exactly?
Would you prefer it if I feverishly read through every line of code in an abject panic?
Until BCX either provides some more technical details, or he just carries out his attack in 2 days time, we don't know *if* there is an exploit, what its nature is, or where to even start looking. So we carry on as normal, investing plenty of time in Monero, without needlessly panicking, because if we panic we will accomplish nothing.
Anonymint doesn't seem to have any affiliation with Monero and he seems to be working his ass off. Even during dinner. As a core developer you are the equivalent of the CEO and in so you have the responsibility towards the share holders (investors) to be on top of this. If I was invested in a company where they hit some serious problems I'd be pretty pissed off if the CEO said he would hit the beach with his wife and stated there are other things in life that matter, not only this company. I would expect the CEO to be working at full speed. If he couldn't solve it himself he would be networking, talking to people who potentially could, speaking to investors trying to calm the market etc. Your reply was another fail in my eyes.
But this is no company, who would benefit from having a rising price. This are asome guys, who work voluntarily in their freetime on a project, they don't even benefit from (the whole team holds less than 50k). Yes, I'd also expect a CEO of a company to fix a urgent problem if I am an investor and hold a significant share of the company, because otherwise I might loose money, but you aren't holding shares, you are holding some coins of a currency, which get's developed currently by a team of 7 guys, but at any point suddenly maybe another team comes up and helps or they plit up etc
I think I know what the mitigation is for anonymity aspect of the exploit. I will tell you I think it can be fixed going into the future, but we can't restore the anonymity from the past. It is fucked. Meaning if you thought you were anonymous you were not. The NSA can compute the intersections.
The best we could do (if I am correct) is to quickly checkpoint the code and get it out to 51% of the miners so we can prevent BCX's Time Warp attack. But fluffypony says we don't have to do anything rushed and he is at beach any way.
Then we put the mitigation in place so the future anonymity isn't broken.
However my mitigation proposal may still fail in the future when the attacker (NSA?) owns many inputs to many rings on the block chain. I haven't gotten that far in my very rushed analysis. So maybe I can devise a solution (but unlikely because I won't know which inputs the attacker owns) or it doesn't scale well for the attacker (our best hope but I am not optimistic).
So I would say yes ring signatures may be doomed, but I am not sure yet. Maybe not also. I hope not.
If only XMR was affected, there is one of my emotions that would love to see it destroyed. But on rational thought, I don't want to hurt the innocent parties who invested, some of whom are my friends (including but not just Rpietila).
The best we could do (if I am correct) is to quickly checkpoint the code and get it out to 51% of the miners so we can prevent BCX's Time Warp attack. But fluffypony says we don't have to do anything rushed and he is at beach any way.
Then we put the mitigation in place so the future anonymity isn't broken.
However my mitigation proposal may still fail in the future when the attacker (NSA?) owns many inputs to many rings on the block chain. I haven't gotten that far in my very rushed analysis. So maybe I can devise a solution (but unlikely because I won't know which inputs the attacker owns) or it doesn't scale well for the attacker (our best hope but I am not optimistic).
So I would say yes ring signatures may be doomed, but I am not sure yet. Maybe not also. I hope not.
If only XMR was affected, there is one of my emotions that would love to see it destroyed. But on rational thought, I don't want to hurt the innocent parties who invested, some of whom are my friends (including but not just Rpietila).
As shown in MRL 0001 I think with a really high base mixin it will be hard, even for an sophisticated attacker, to be able to completely isolate the spender in a ringsig.
http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
Smooth also did a while ago some calculations of the cost of such an attack in the Altcoin observer, but I can't currently find the post
EDIT: Maybe you could discuss the fix with one of the other core members (or rpietila), I think most of them appreciate what you're doing here.
None of them take me seriously. I am tired of this shit.
BCX may or may not have an exploit but this was not what I wanted to do with my time. I have much more lucrative things to be working on. XMR people think they know everything. So let them.
I think, while it may be partially true, that your achievements didn't get honored enough, It's also partially misinterpretation. While you go the more theoretical way, that any flaw should be fixed as fast as possible and than even in edge cases no attack vector should exist, fluffypony is going the more simple way (and you may want to cal it realistic way), in that an attack can be mitgated post-happening through some centralized efforts, which is at it's gist only a different approach (and thus a different opinion), then yours (and to be quite frankly the worse). Though this can be interpreted as downplaying and disrespecting your efforts.
"When we can rollback the attack, why should we bother?" seems to be your interpretation of fluffypony's posts, but it's more of an
"We are trying as hard as possible to find the exploit and are supporting your efforts, but if we won't be able to fix it in time, we still can go the centralized and worse way in trying to rollback it similiar to Bitcoin".
I think everyone is aware that a post-mitgation is always worse, fluffy just wanted to show a (worse) way in mitgating it afterwards, but by still being fully aware of the disadvantages of this.
Please don't mistake a different opinion with disresepct or trolling and continue to work on it, you're doing a great job!
Can one of the devs post a donation monero address for a special cause ? I would like to donate to someone who wants to buy mining power to strenghten the network to make a possible attack more difficult. I don't have much but fuck it, i am willing to donate to a good cause. Let's fight back as a community.
Can one of the devs post a donation monero address for a special cause ? I would like to donate to someone who wants to buy mining power to strenghten the network to make a possible attack more difficult. I don't have much but fuck it, i am willing to donate to a good cause. Let's fight back as a community.
I, too, want to donate in this time of need. Is the Hall of Fame address appropriate?
I'd recommend to just send the fund to the Monero Dev donation address:
Code:
46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em
(better look it up yourself)I think it is more important to support AnonyMint and the Monero devs to look up if their are any exploits possible, while large holders and miners will certainly provide some more hashrate
First, I just had the epiphany a few hours ago and I have been multitasking on other things too as you can see by my post history today.
So I could be incorrect, or the developers may have thought of it long ago and already put mitigation in place. So please don't jump to conclusions. I don't want to end up looking like a fool.
It appears to me that what I found can be mitigated to retain anonymity while protecting the wallets, so that makes me wonder whether I found BCX's exploit or not. But the mitigation might be onerous, I and or CN devs will need to spend more analysis time on this.
I don't have the resources to exploit it. And the exploit takes some time to develop. So don't expect anyone attacking any time soon.
My expectation is it is not as big an issue as BCX is saying. If I am correct, we can probably get this wrapped up very soon and continue forward.
I don't think a run on the coin's price would be justified at this time.
I probably did the wrong thing and should have only announced my discovery to the developers, so it could be vetted privately first. But my first reaction was how to short because if a coin killer I could earn a lot more. As I realized there is probably mitigation and also as I realized that to short I would be borrowing from the longs who are deep pocketed, that I couldn't win a shorting battle unless it was a fight to the finish and I have no desire to fight with my friend Risto nor the other developers I would like to work with in the future.
So the wisest action is to sell my insight to them if I am correct. Let them work on mitigation.
Again I could be wrong or making a mountain out of a molehill, and I doubt this is a coin killer. So just relax while I await what CN devs will offer me for my insight.
At least hopefully we can get some closure soon on the BCX exploit.
Edit: I might have enough resources for a part of it but not if it requires a Time Warp attack to double-spend the private keys found, but it would risk too much of the operating capital I need. And my expectations of future profit over the next 6 months are in the 10,000 BTC range, so why should I waste my time on this. I am doing this because of the thrill of finding it. I just want to be compensated something reasonable.
So I could be incorrect, or the developers may have thought of it long ago and already put mitigation in place. So please don't jump to conclusions. I don't want to end up looking like a fool.
It appears to me that what I found can be mitigated to retain anonymity while protecting the wallets, so that makes me wonder whether I found BCX's exploit or not. But the mitigation might be onerous, I and or CN devs will need to spend more analysis time on this.
I don't have the resources to exploit it. And the exploit takes some time to develop. So don't expect anyone attacking any time soon.
My expectation is it is not as big an issue as BCX is saying. If I am correct, we can probably get this wrapped up very soon and continue forward.
I don't think a run on the coin's price would be justified at this time.
I probably did the wrong thing and should have only announced my discovery to the developers, so it could be vetted privately first. But my first reaction was how to short because if a coin killer I could earn a lot more. As I realized there is probably mitigation and also as I realized that to short I would be borrowing from the longs who are deep pocketed, that I couldn't win a shorting battle unless it was a fight to the finish and I have no desire to fight with my friend Risto nor the other developers I would like to work with in the future.
So the wisest action is to sell my insight to them if I am correct. Let them work on mitigation.
Again I could be wrong or making a mountain out of a molehill, and I doubt this is a coin killer. So just relax while I await what CN devs will offer me for my insight.
At least hopefully we can get some closure soon on the BCX exploit.
Edit: I might have enough resources for a part of it but not if it requires a Time Warp attack to double-spend the private keys found, but it would risk too much of the operating capital I need. And my expectations of future profit over the next 6 months are in the 10,000 BTC range, so why should I waste my time on this. I am doing this because of the thrill of finding it. I just want to be compensated something reasonable.
I hope you understand by CN devs, people who are actively developing this technology (the Monero core team and crypto_zoidberg) instead of the shady figures of the original team, who might want to use this exploit to attack XMR and BBR or investors, who invested strongly in competing coins (Brilliantrocket)
note: I am not accusing anyone participating here of malicious activities or the plan to harm anyone else
I had a sudden epiphany while at dinner which is BCX's exploit, well at least I can find the i == s and from that it may be possible to factor 'x' the private key.
I am trying to think of a fix. So far I can not think of any fix. I think BCX is correct, this is a coin killer.
I will also be contacting BCX to see if he wants to buy it from me since he wrote publicly that someone offered in 100 BTC for this.
BCX, do you have any interest in buying this from me instead of me selling to James, smooth, or BrilliantRocket?
I am trying to think of a fix. So far I can not think of any fix. I think BCX is correct, this is a coin killer.
I will also be contacting BCX to see if he wants to buy it from me since he wrote publicly that someone offered in 100 BTC for this.
BCX, do you have any interest in buying this from me instead of me selling to James, smooth, or BrilliantRocket?
This quote seems to be kinda incorrect? It is not an publicy avaiable quote, but certainly not a PM, because he talks about you, BCX, in a "third-person-fashion" - not like you are his conservations-partner.
Atleast I would not use his name as someone outside of the conservation like Caesar did with himself
I think BCX is correct, this is a coin killer.
I will also be contacting BCX to see if he wants to buy it from me since he wrote publicly that someone offered in 100 BTC for this.
I will also be contacting BCX to see if he wants to buy it from me since he wrote publicly that someone offered in 100 BTC for this.
he may have sent the PM to multiple people...
That's true, but which other people were part of the conversation? BCX could call out this people and they should be able to verify it then.