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An updated whitepaper would solve all of this. Can we agree on that?
It will come in due time but all of the important things have been confirmed by customer support or janix himself. That is good enough for me.
ICN = ownership of the platform + IMMEDIATE ownership of ICNP + profits from buyback .. anything else like ICN for ICOs or ICN for buying funds is a plus
If I have to choose between holding icn or buying icnp, which one should i go for and why?
I do not have lots of funds for icnp so I might have to sell off my icn
I do not have lots of funds for icnp so I might have to sell off my icn
By buying ICN you automatically hold ICNP. This is the hidden secret no one talks about. You cant buy into ICNP. You can only buy ICNX which is sort of an index. Since the ICNP can potentially deliver better returns it will increase the value of ICN dramatically
for all who dont understand yet ICN please read 1st page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1789926.0
Couldn't agree more
This warms my heart: "ICNP
First digital asset array
ICNP is an actively managed Digital Asset Array with a high performance target. It is led by a team of experts conducting thorough research and due diligence backed by Deloitte and CoFound.it.
Its lead by a team of experts conducting thorough research and due diligence backed by Deloitte and CoFound.it."
Rofl at clueless reddit idiots. Here customer support in an email clearly states that ICN represents ownership and that you will get voting rights
"Its different in the way that holding ICN indicates that you believe that the company itself will succeed." I then sent another email, asking what the fuck that even means. The email i got back was from Gregor K. And he states "the profits (in accordance with profit distribution policy) and fees go to buybacks and if you hold ICN tokens you get this "profits". ICN token also represents ownership of the company and will give you voting rights in the future."
Then the reddit user says this:
Youre right, in the AMA u/jani8x states the assets would be shared with ICN holders if the company were to close. Effectively meaning we are all part owners/share holders. And then in that exact same thread u/jani8x states the ICN tokens will be given a ulitity. A token cannot simultaneously be used a share and also a utility inside the platform, that makes no sense.
Do people even read what they write? OF COURSE a token can have utility AND be a share. Just like ETH represents a share of the network utilization and speculation it is also a utility token. LEGALLY they cannot say this but ETH is a security just like ICN is BUT people that dont understand the unwritten law of cryptomarkets are fools and try to compare crypto to traditional markets.
ICN = ownership of platform + voting rights + buybacks + utility == Overkill demand
We have hedge funds willing to poor in 200m+ into ICNX,ICNP
"Its different in the way that holding ICN indicates that you believe that the company itself will succeed." I then sent another email, asking what the fuck that even means. The email i got back was from Gregor K. And he states "the profits (in accordance with profit distribution policy) and fees go to buybacks and if you hold ICN tokens you get this "profits". ICN token also represents ownership of the company and will give you voting rights in the future."
Then the reddit user says this:
Youre right, in the AMA u/jani8x states the assets would be shared with ICN holders if the company were to close. Effectively meaning we are all part owners/share holders. And then in that exact same thread u/jani8x states the ICN tokens will be given a ulitity. A token cannot simultaneously be used a share and also a utility inside the platform, that makes no sense.
Do people even read what they write? OF COURSE a token can have utility AND be a share. Just like ETH represents a share of the network utilization and speculation it is also a utility token. LEGALLY they cannot say this but ETH is a security just like ICN is BUT people that dont understand the unwritten law of cryptomarkets are fools and try to compare crypto to traditional markets.
ICN = ownership of platform + voting rights + buybacks + utility == Overkill demand
We have hedge funds willing to poor in 200m+ into ICNX,ICNP
This prediction is worth nothing after Jani confirmed that 
And again the concept of value - it will bring additional value, but in no way it will be it's "only value".
With statements like that you sound like a troll - a well disguised one but still.
And again the concept of value - it will bring additional value, but in no way it will be it's "only value".
With statements like that you sound like a troll - a well disguised one but still.
The "prediction" is that it will be its sole value. I know Jani comfirmed that it will happen. My prediction is worth something in that I'm saying it will be the only value - at least to start with (which you disagree with)
I could be dead wrong, of course. That's just the direction I'm going with what I believe I know.
It's not intended as trolling, because I'm not saying "this will be terrible!"... Golem GNT was originally intended as a sort of "share" but they transitioned last minute. Mysterium are making the same move, because they know they can't (legally) offer shares at this moment in time. Mysterium's move is what further leads me to saying a lot of the things I've said. It seems like Mysterium have learned from Iconomi's mistake in this area.
I agree with you, though, that this isn't how crypto works right now. But that's just it - I'm only talking about now. I also envision a future where a token will serve that purpose. But we're not there yet.
I'm out and about, so can't go over each point you made - but it looks like you made some good points there. I may respond via DM later, if I have anything more to add.
Have a nice day!
P.S. - Read the end of my response to Daparski above. You mentioned communication channels. See if you can get Jani to confirm what you're saying. It would be the first step toward convincing me (and others) - then we can take it from there.
@Mendeleev You are a seriously misinformed person. If you had spent just 1 minute going through the latest reddit AMA then you would know that jani already confirmed that ICN does in fact represent ownership of the ICNP and even other assets
I quote: "Yes - theoretically If ICONOMI closes down all the assets (that are currently worth around $33m) would be evenly distributed across every ICN token holders. Technically we would have to deploy a smart contract, convert all the assets into ETH (preferably) or any other ETH based tokens and allow anyone with a corresponding balance at certain block height to take ETH from that contract. On exchanges price would become equal or come with a slight discount compared to book value."
The original question was: "There has been a few comments recently by other users that question ICN's value and where it is derived from. I understand that the buy-back is a profit distribution method, but since ICN represents ownership of Iconomi... Does that mean that if hypothetically Iconomi was to close down tomorrow, would all the assets worth over $33 million be distributed evenly across every ICN token? I think this will clarify ICN's value proposition and whether it does actually represent ownership of the Iconomi platform including assets managed by ICNP and funds raised through ICO. "
Aside from that, it is not unfeasible to believe that ICN will be the sole token to purchase ICNX on the platform.
Furthermore, ICN does buybacks. A portion of all of the profits from the platform will result in buybacks. This means over time this will be a deflationary cryptotoken unlike BTC or ETH. The buyback also guarantees a stake in the success of the platform.
Lastly, it is not impossible that the ICN team may decide to allow people to participate in ICO's using ICN.
because it's fast and the people wants a "normal" e-currency with instant transactions. 
This. It is literally that simple - people just want something that works well.
Because of the quick blocks, they arn't going to experience network congestion. Yesterday there was a period where just one bitcoin block was found in an hour, which increased the backlog. With Ether making blocks practically every minute it's not going to happen to them. And all the end user cares about is whether something works. They don't want to hear excuses or explanations about why their transaction hasn't gone through. They just want stuff to work.
So what is going on with the development or the push for Bitcoin thunder network now? The last I read, the thunder network is going to try resolve the problem of network confirmation.
It is too little too late. The lightning network is a last ditch attempt to save Bitcoin. I am simply not convinced it will come out early enough and even if it magically gets released next 3 months it will have a slow adoption curve. At the same time, ETH is making incredible progress not just as a currency but in all sorts of areas.
This risks that Bitcoin will drop in half are considerable and thats a risk I am not willing to take when there are coins with a more promising future.
But what is stopping Chinese Ether miners from taking over half the world's processing power, all over again? They have access to cheaper raw materials, cheaper power to mine Ether.
The fact that they cant do that due to PoS. With PoS, only stakeholders can participate in the staking process and earn fees on the network. ETH stakeholders are spread throughout the world as it should be.
I welcome anyone to join us at reddit.com/ethtrader and join people who actually make money with crypto
Just to clear up some confusion:
Again, if you are bored of 1-2% gains or even 50% losses in the next months, then I welcome you to join us on /ethtrader
Take a step back and look at what ETH is (a huge and wonderful play on the 300B sharing economy and IoT revolution).
Then evaluate BTC and you will see that BTC cannot compete in any way and has already lost the "war".
Put on top that silly civil war going on between BTC devs. Put on top the fact that BTC is effectively controlled by the Chinese - there are large stakeholders that have an interest in seeing BTC fail.
Ultimately, you have to ask yourself, do you want to invest in a Chinese company or a network that is jointly governed and controlled by the world?
Just to clear up some confusion:
- 1. First things first: Ether supply is not infinite - in a few months we will switch to a new algorithm (Proof of Stake) and mining will stop forever. Dilution will stop immediately. There will be a low inflation of possibly 0 to 1% per anno.
2. Many bluechips, some of the largest corporations on this planet are heavily investing into Ethereum or are at least researching it, including Reuters (News), RWE (Energy) and some of the largest insurers in the world
3. There is an overwhelming brain-drain happening. Many smart developers left BTC and joined Ethereum already.
4. The fact that we as a community raised $150 million in a month to fund the development shows that we will quickly outspend BTC development in a major way
5. ETH Network difficulty continues to explode, underlining that this is a real network that will quickly outpace BTC
6. ETH has much more use cases than BTC will ever have - it goes way beyond currency and as such you can argue that it will have far greater volume, especially if it can grab some of the IoT market share. Fact: After 7 years+ BTC has no scripting language.
7. ETH is incredibly, incredibly fast and way easier to scale
8. ETH is easy to program. The programming language is based on Javascript
9. ETH has the potential to revolutionize some of our largest industries on this planet. It has garnered so much attention that government institutions are now actively looking into it to safe money on administration / notary services and so on
10. Bitcoin was an experiment. It failed to go beyond currency. ETH is already there. We are doing it, right now.
Again, if you are bored of 1-2% gains or even 50% losses in the next months, then I welcome you to join us on /ethtrader
Take a step back and look at what ETH is (a huge and wonderful play on the 300B sharing economy and IoT revolution).
Then evaluate BTC and you will see that BTC cannot compete in any way and has already lost the "war".
Put on top that silly civil war going on between BTC devs. Put on top the fact that BTC is effectively controlled by the Chinese - there are large stakeholders that have an interest in seeing BTC fail.
Ultimately, you have to ask yourself, do you want to invest in a Chinese company or a network that is jointly governed and controlled by the world?
[WTS] Ethereum / Litecoin Mining Rig Mit 5 Karten (3 Rigs 280x / 7950!)
Hallo,
ich möchte Angebote einholen für 3 Mining Rigs mit jeweils 5 Karten die pro Tag 15 Ether verdienen. Viele Karten sind R9 280x oder 7950 und sind sehr effizient. Motherboard und Netzteile sind Neuware, die Karten sind teils gebraucht gekauft oder ebenfalls neu.
Hashrate ungefähr 110 Mh/s bis 120 Mh/s, was etwa 5 Ether pro Tag entspricht bei einem Verbrauch von 1000 bis 1100 Watt.
Wenn du/Ihr Interesse habt, meldet euch doch bei mir. Fotos werden die Tage eingestellt.
Ich verkaufe da ich dieses Jahr nicht mehr die Zeit für meine Rigs habe. Und ja ich nehme Angebote für nur 1 Rig oder alle 3 an.
Angebote sollten so bei 1350 liegen (pro Rig), da viel Neuware verbaut wurde. Die Leistung der Rigs ist ziemlich identisch. Solltest du alle 3 Rigs kaufen gibt es einen Rabatt.
Besten Gruß
ich möchte Angebote einholen für 3 Mining Rigs mit jeweils 5 Karten die pro Tag 15 Ether verdienen. Viele Karten sind R9 280x oder 7950 und sind sehr effizient. Motherboard und Netzteile sind Neuware, die Karten sind teils gebraucht gekauft oder ebenfalls neu.
Hashrate ungefähr 110 Mh/s bis 120 Mh/s, was etwa 5 Ether pro Tag entspricht bei einem Verbrauch von 1000 bis 1100 Watt.
Wenn du/Ihr Interesse habt, meldet euch doch bei mir. Fotos werden die Tage eingestellt.
Ich verkaufe da ich dieses Jahr nicht mehr die Zeit für meine Rigs habe. Und ja ich nehme Angebote für nur 1 Rig oder alle 3 an.
Angebote sollten so bei 1350 liegen (pro Rig), da viel Neuware verbaut wurde. Die Leistung der Rigs ist ziemlich identisch. Solltest du alle 3 Rigs kaufen gibt es einen Rabatt.
Besten Gruß
support@altbitex.com.I have 1 bitcoin 100 dash 55 litecoin worth approx $675 will swop for 675 shares if anyone inetrested.Please email ASAP as they will go quickly
Send you mail. Lets negotiate.
I do not have much information about these shares so just a curious to ask why can't you just sell and keep your full 400$ for yourself? Is there any limitation or holding period to sell these shares? Thanks
There is no holding period but a semi price lock. You cant sell below a certain value. This is good for investors because the price does not fall and you get your dividend without losing any value but its not very liquid
I still have them .. PM me for Skype
Need BTC in advance but will disclose details for smooth transaction
Hallo
verkaufe 222 Banx aktien die BTC dividende zahlt jeden Monat. Der gesamte account wird verkauft (Guthaben rund 1.701 BTC / $411) für $350
Bitcoin als Zahlung (Vorleistung)
Werde Name und falls notwendig Adresse preisgeben oder Escrow
Danke
verkaufe 222 Banx aktien die BTC dividende zahlt jeden Monat. Der gesamte account wird verkauft (Guthaben rund 1.701 BTC / $411) für $350
Bitcoin als Zahlung (Vorleistung)
Werde Name und falls notwendig Adresse preisgeben oder Escrow
Danke
Hello
I have a Banx.io account with 222 BANX shares which I will sell below market value due to an emergency (needs funds asap)
As of this moment that is $400 worth. I will accept offers starting at $350 via Paypal. I will disclose my real name and some other details for a smooth transaction.
PM offers
Thank you
I have a Banx.io account with 222 BANX shares which I will sell below market value due to an emergency (needs funds asap)
As of this moment that is $400 worth. I will accept offers starting at $350 via Paypal. I will disclose my real name and some other details for a smooth transaction.
PM offers
Thank you
Du willst ganz schön viel von uns wissen wenn wir da teilnehmen wollen.
"Der Organizer, Oliver, bittet um ein ausgefülltes Profil, bevor Du Bitcoins And Emerging Tech That Changes The World beitreten kannst."
"Der Organizer, Oliver, bittet um ein ausgefülltes Profil, bevor Du Bitcoins And Emerging Tech That Changes The World beitreten kannst."
Glaube das ist von der Seite so eingestellt, jedenfalls habe ich nirgends ne Checkbox gesehen wo ich das ausschalten könnte
Hab mich heute dort erst registriert, muss mich da mal durchklicken
Oder wir organisieren einfach übers Board hier was, wenn jemand Lust hat zu traden, schickt mir einfach ne PM
Moin,
hat jemand Lust zwischen 6. u 18. auf ein wenig Networking, Austausch bzgl Mining und evtl. Interesse ein wenig zu traden (ich verkaufe derzeit, interessiere mich aber auch für alt coins, wäre also nicht abgeneigt ein wenig zu traden)
Wenn Interesse besteht bitte PM, Starbucks ist rel. gemütlich dafür
==> Edit: Hab einfach mal ne Gruppe auf Meetup gestartet, wer Interesse hat bitte joinen
http://www.meetup.com/Bitcoins-And-Emerging-Tech-That-Changes-The-World/events/154323272/
hat jemand Lust zwischen 6. u 18. auf ein wenig Networking, Austausch bzgl Mining und evtl. Interesse ein wenig zu traden (ich verkaufe derzeit, interessiere mich aber auch für alt coins, wäre also nicht abgeneigt ein wenig zu traden)
Wenn Interesse besteht bitte PM, Starbucks ist rel. gemütlich dafür
==> Edit: Hab einfach mal ne Gruppe auf Meetup gestartet, wer Interesse hat bitte joinen
http://www.meetup.com/Bitcoins-And-Emerging-Tech-That-Changes-The-World/events/154323272/
Re: Hamburg Bitcoin-Treffen, 1. Mittwoch im Monat, 19:00 im SternChance
Moin, moin.... bin neu hier und suche Bitcoin begeisterte in Hamburg. Hat wer Lust auf ein Trade am Wochenende (ich verkaufe)?
Satoshi Square hört sich gut an, wäre dabei
Hat wer Interesse eine Gruppe auf Meetup zu gründen? Würde die Kosten übernehmen dafür, dann finden wir vllt noch andere die nicht hier im Forum aktiv sind
Satoshi Square hört sich gut an, wäre dabei
Hat wer Interesse eine Gruppe auf Meetup zu gründen? Würde die Kosten übernehmen dafür, dann finden wir vllt noch andere die nicht hier im Forum aktiv sind