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You do have a point and one we had to consider. As per the OP I think the DGEX commission they have set is 3% of funds managed. So there most certainly is a self interest in raising a large amount of funds. That being said, as I just mentioned in another comment, I don't think anyone will hit the 10% mark and the previous high they saw was 6% from one investor.
Of course it is unlikely that the 10% mark will be hit, as it is obvious DGEX wants as much BTC invested as possible.
They will suggest a mark that is so high it is very unlikely it will be hit. That way, the maximum amount of invested BTC from every single person can be guaranteed.
And 6% of all coins in the hands of a single investor is a ticking time bomb already.
NXT had and has to face accusations of bad distribution and their top account only held 5% of everyting.
As was later shown, I was wrong in this post considering Dgex motives. The information I commented upon was false.
-snip-
This is something we have thought about long and hard and really don't have a solid answer to. I would love to hear your thoughts on a better way to manage investors. If we limit the max investment per person, and total investment we could get 3 or 4 investors who make sock puppet accounts and invest enough to get large percentages on day 1, cutting out a number of later investors and holding huge proportions of the initial stake. I think setting a total cap allows for a few heavy buyers to buy up the entire supply early on and ultimately limits how many people can participate.
If we don't cap, we can't gauge what the distribution will look like, but as many of you have mentioned, if there is a fear of the price initially dipping and no immediate profits on the exchanges, it's possible some of those investors who thought to buy and dump a ton, knowing they might lose money, will invest less or stay away to an extent.
I feel like its a slippery slope and a tough model to design and all launches are experiments and tests for future launches to maybe come up with a better method. At this point, we have come to a consensus where we are and I feel like it is getting too late in the game to change the numbers.
That being said, it's always something good to talk about and continue to evolve so I would love to hear your ideas.
This is something we have thought about long and hard and really don't have a solid answer to. I would love to hear your thoughts on a better way to manage investors. If we limit the max investment per person, and total investment we could get 3 or 4 investors who make sock puppet accounts and invest enough to get large percentages on day 1, cutting out a number of later investors and holding huge proportions of the initial stake. I think setting a total cap allows for a few heavy buyers to buy up the entire supply early on and ultimately limits how many people can participate.
If we don't cap, we can't gauge what the distribution will look like, but as many of you have mentioned, if there is a fear of the price initially dipping and no immediate profits on the exchanges, it's possible some of those investors who thought to buy and dump a ton, knowing they might lose money, will invest less or stay away to an extent.
I feel like its a slippery slope and a tough model to design and all launches are experiments and tests for future launches to maybe come up with a better method. At this point, we have come to a consensus where we are and I feel like it is getting too late in the game to change the numbers.
That being said, it's always something good to talk about and continue to evolve so I would love to hear your ideas.
To start out, I don't think the necessary time for a good distribution of this project is left.
To have a really good distribution a lot of work has to be invested into the process. NEM is a good direction to start looking, but they have considerable problems as well.
In any case, to ensure as little possible rulebreakers enter the boat, a multitude of measures are needed.
Things like registering on a website provided by you, gathering IPs, geolocations, blocking tor and surely a lot more.
In the end you can never be sure to filter out everyone going against the rules, but you can make sure whoever tries will have a hell of a lot of work getting past the security measures.
Meticulous sockpuppet removal should always be seen as a long term investment in the project.
@Vega
Actually, some POS schemes pay interest. New coins are created on the basis of coins you already own.
-snip-
Proof of work is not a financial instrument. Proof of stake means the holder gets paid additional stake for holding. Same as in a savings account.
The fact that this is a cryptocoin does not make any difference. It is a negotiable item, which earns interest, and is being sold by unregistered persons. It is no different than buying a bond.
Proof of work is not a financial instrument. Proof of stake means the holder gets paid additional stake for holding. Same as in a savings account.
The fact that this is a cryptocoin does not make any difference. It is a negotiable item, which earns interest, and is being sold by unregistered persons. It is no different than buying a bond.
Your interpretation is based on assumptions which don't seem to be true.
I havn't seen any point where crypti is stating to be an inflationary crypto.
If the scheme is similar to NXT, only transaction fees are redistributed. There is no jurisdiction which equals the earning of transaction fees with interest.
I have been following this thread for long. By the first IPO, I was happy with the detailed explanation from Grexx and SyRenity about initial distribution. Why the 15% or the 10% was required etc made sense. The final outlay about dev fund reflecting the amount of btc raised seemed good too. But then there was this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.msg7602355#msg7602355
This was just before the initial distribution. While it was later corrected by SyRenity to reflect the OP; now we have ended up with the same distribution (up to 25% premine for the guys). Now, IMO this amounts to double speak and constant moving goalpost by the team. So I am outta here.
PS: for guys who actually want to invest, at BTC at 650, here's what the whole coin will be worth:
250 BTC = 812,500
300 BTC = 1.02 million
350 BTC = 1.26 million
400 BTC = 1.53 million
450 BTC = 1.83 million
500 BTC = 2.17 million
Now the question is - is the current beta worth that much money? Think and invest.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.msg7602355#msg7602355
This was just before the initial distribution. While it was later corrected by SyRenity to reflect the OP; now we have ended up with the same distribution (up to 25% premine for the guys). Now, IMO this amounts to double speak and constant moving goalpost by the team. So I am outta here.
PS: for guys who actually want to invest, at BTC at 650, here's what the whole coin will be worth:
250 BTC = 812,500
300 BTC = 1.02 million
350 BTC = 1.26 million
400 BTC = 1.53 million
450 BTC = 1.83 million
500 BTC = 2.17 million
Now the question is - is the current beta worth that much money? Think and invest.
The unanswered question is how many coins are going to be sold in the IPO. The OP says 80% of the genesis block. It does not say how big this block will be. Total coins to be mined is listed at 100Million. If the genesis block is a huge 1 million coins, and they raise even 250 BTC for the IPO, that makes each CRYPTI coin worth......25,000 satoshis!!!
Thats quite a high price for a new coin.
SO, what is the size of the genesis block going to be??
Litoshi, the genesis block is listed as 100,000,000 in the whitepaper, it must not have been transferred to the OP correctly when it was re-written for the new updates? It will all be created in the Genesis block and distributed according to escrow. There is no mining and all currency will be created in the genesis block. Hope that clears up that point.
AH Yes.... Now it all becomes clear. You guys are not setting up another CryptoCoin to be mined and created by miners POW, you are selling COINS that you created out of thin air.
Since these coins are negotiable, and earn interest over time (POS payments) you are actually selling a financial security.
If you are not registered with the US SEC to do this in the US, you are committing a felony in the US.
There are also laws to require registration for selling securities in Russia and EU.
Anybody that would buy these unregistered securities would be a fool.
So, coins that have mining involved are no financial security?
No, PoS secure is very well. If you want to test, send me your test passphrase. I will invite you.
You misunderstood me. I was not questioning the security of POS in general or Crypti in particular.
I just wanted to feed the troll
I have been following this thread for long. By the first IPO, I was happy with the detailed explanation from Grexx and SyRenity about initial distribution. Why the 15% or the 10% was required etc made sense. The final outlay about dev fund reflecting the amount of btc raised seemed good too. But then there was this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.msg7602355#msg7602355
This was just before the initial distribution. While it was later corrected by SyRenity to reflect the OP; now we have ended up with the same distribution (up to 25% premine for the guys). Now, IMO this amounts to double speak and constant moving goalpost by the team. So I am outta here.
PS: for guys who actually want to invest, at BTC at 650, here's what the whole coin will be worth:
250 BTC = 812,500
300 BTC = 1.02 million
350 BTC = 1.26 million
400 BTC = 1.53 million
450 BTC = 1.83 million
500 BTC = 2.17 million
Now the question is - is the current beta worth that much money? Think and invest.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.msg7602355#msg7602355
This was just before the initial distribution. While it was later corrected by SyRenity to reflect the OP; now we have ended up with the same distribution (up to 25% premine for the guys). Now, IMO this amounts to double speak and constant moving goalpost by the team. So I am outta here.
PS: for guys who actually want to invest, at BTC at 650, here's what the whole coin will be worth:
250 BTC = 812,500
300 BTC = 1.02 million
350 BTC = 1.26 million
400 BTC = 1.53 million
450 BTC = 1.83 million
500 BTC = 2.17 million
Now the question is - is the current beta worth that much money? Think and invest.
The unanswered question is how many coins are going to be sold in the IPO. The OP says 80% of the genesis block. It does not say how big this block will be. Total coins to be mined is listed at 100Million. If the genesis block is a huge 1 million coins, and they raise even 250 BTC for the IPO, that makes each CRYPTI coin worth......25,000 satoshis!!!
Thats quite a high price for a new coin.
SO, what is the size of the genesis block going to be??
Litoshi, the genesis block is listed as 100,000,000 in the whitepaper, it must not have been transferred to the OP correctly when it was re-written for the new updates? It will all be created in the Genesis block and distributed according to escrow. There is no mining and all currency will be created in the genesis block. Hope that clears up that point.
AH Yes.... Now it all becomes clear. You guys are not setting up another CryptoCoin to be mined and created by miners POW, you are selling COINS that you created out of thin air.
Since these coins are negotiable, and earn interest over time (POS payments) you are actually selling a financial security.
If you are not registered with the US SEC to do this in the US, you are committing a felony in the US.
There are also laws to require registration for selling securities in Russia and EU.
Anybody that would buy these unregistered securities would be a fool.
So, coins that have mining involved are no financial security?
Jesus 10% per user is a joke. One of them can dump the price to exactly 0.
10% seems really high. See, if around 2 or 3% is considered usually maximum healthy premine on altcoins, why should buy-inn be any bigger?
The 10% number came from our discussions with DGEX. 10% max investment is what they used for their previous managed pre-sale and what they suggested we implement. We decided that we would take their advice and go with the recommended number they chose from experience.
DGEX did it once and it didn't explode. Also, as I assume DGEX will get compensation based on the amount of invested BTC over DGEX, there is a collision of interests.
Should compensation be based on the amount of invested BTC, the 10% is more self interest than interest in the well being of the coin.
You do have a point and one we had to consider. As per the OP I think the DGEX commission they have set is 3% of funds managed. So there most certainly is a self interest in raising a large amount of funds. That being said, as I just mentioned in another comment, I don't think anyone will hit the 10% mark and the previous high they saw was 6% from one investor.
Of course it is unlikely that the 10% mark will be hit, as it is obvious DGEX wants as much BTC invested as possible.
They will suggest a mark that is so high it is very unlikely it will be hit. That way, the maximum amount of invested BTC from every single person can be guaranteed.
And 6% of all coins in the hands of a single investor is a ticking time bomb already.
NXT had and has to face accusations of bad distribution and their top account only held 5% of everyting.
Jesus 10% per user is a joke. One of them can dump the price to exactly 0.
10% seems really high. See, if around 2 or 3% is considered usually maximum healthy premine on altcoins, why should buy-inn be any bigger?
The 10% number came from our discussions with DGEX. 10% max investment is what they used for their previous managed pre-sale and what they suggested we implement. We decided that we would take their advice and go with the recommended number they chose from experience.
DGEX did it once and it didn't explode. Also, as I assume DGEX will get compensation based on the amount of invested BTC over DGEX, there is a collision of interests.
Should compensation be based on the amount of invested BTC, the 10% is more self interest than interest in the well being of the coin.
Little announce:
In the end of week we will post new version with bug fixes, some changes.
Fees will be changed, some bugs will be fixed that we got from community.
On next week we will post version with PoS for everybody and new nodes.
Thanks.
In the end of week we will post new version with bug fixes, some changes.
Fees will be changed, some bugs will be fixed that we got from community.
On next week we will post version with PoS for everybody and new nodes.
Thanks.
Still no answer to my question Cryptsi:
What avatars has CRYPTSI been using on bitcointalk.org forum prior to his NEWBY "Cryptsi" avatar, obviously invented for this coin?
Without full disclosure, you guys are just another Russian Gang out to fleece the world
actually a very good question. Only thing missing is an instant answer by cryptsi.
As i said. My name is Boris Povod. I'm node.js developer from Russia. My odesk account - https://www.odesk.com/o/profiles/users/_~0117967abb1f5d0a53/ . My ip address: 176.212.92.57. Is enough? You can google another devs and i think you will find something info of they.
But my question was:
What other avatars have you used in this forum? There have been many many coin scams and disappearing devs in the past year. Before I invest, I would like to know what other avatars you have used, and what other coins you have launched.
He gave you his real name and his ip address.. which seem much more important than previous forum avatar(s) and is much more than most "devs" do.
Might as well give your previous avatars, though, if it will quell Litoshi's incessant nagging.
As his real name and IP was provided, I don't see any other reason but trolling behind the question of other avatars.
Edit:
Excuse me, not trolling. But rather the inability to see a genuine coin project.
Comparing this with cryptometh, stackcoin and other copy/paste projects shows a severe lack of insight.
The dead?? 
No, it's not dead. We are working. Wait for IPO and new version. It's soon.
On next week i think we will invite peoples for test our PoS.
is ipo open?
Not yet. I think around 7 June. Provide your emails: http://crypti.me . I will notify your about date and in IPO start day.
11 months from now? Also - I'm confused here. So people have to buy shares of the IPO weeks before there is even a working wallet? Also, I'm assuming we will get to see a demo of all of the planned projects before investing? Is there a refund to investors if you don't reach a milestone? I'm confused by the whole thing I guess.
Isn't it pretty easy?
You don't like it, don't invest.
I'm pretty sure you will though. And you hope you will be one of the few who do.
Little announce:
In the end of week we will post new version with bug fixes, some changes.
Fees will be changed, some bugs will be fixed that we got from community.
On next week we will post version with PoS for everybody and new nodes.
Thanks.
In the end of week we will post new version with bug fixes, some changes.
Fees will be changed, some bugs will be fixed that we got from community.
On next week we will post version with PoS for everybody and new nodes.
Thanks.
Still no answer to my question Cryptsi:
What avatars has CRYPTSI been using on bitcointalk.org forum prior to his NEWBY "Cryptsi" avatar, obviously invented for this coin?
Without full disclosure, you guys are just another Russian Gang out to fleece the world
Really? What does it matter? I mean, it's nice of you to scare away competition. At least I hope that's your goal.
It would be pretty ridiculous if you're really that bad at recocnizing a legit Project.
Hey dev,
simxchg is down. Please take a look.
He already did.
The exchange hoster is supposadly doing maintenance. Hopefully the exchange will be back up soon.
And your money in there is safe
Re: [ANN]◥◤N2◢◣IPO◥◤100% POS◢◣NXT Clone◥◤New Features◢◣FULL Version Available◥◤
He said next update will be in around 4 weeks (last week)
Incorrect. Update will be here in 2 weeks. (one week from now)
Re: [ANN]◥◤N2◢◣IPO◥◤100% POS◢◣NXT Clone◥◤New Features◢◣FULL Version Available◥◤
I don't see a problem, except maybe a lot of pretty new accounts posting around here spreading fud.
I like to see where things are going. Not being on a big exchange is not the worst thing.
Has anyone actually asked for N2 to be included in any exchange?
I like to see where things are going. Not being on a big exchange is not the worst thing.
Has anyone actually asked for N2 to be included in any exchange?
Re: [ANN]◥◤N2◢◣IPO◥◤100% POS◢◣NXT Clone◥◤New Features◢◣FULL Version Available◥◤
v3.1
A. a fatal bug is fixed.
B. some automatic server bounty system bugs are fixed, now the system is up and running.
Everyone please update to version 3.1 or you'll be at risk of losing your N2 coins.
Nice!
Quick fix of the critical bug And that's also the reason it's good this is on no exchange yet.
Imagine the terror if a big exchange has all the N2 disappear
- The password of this account is unknown, random, and only software knows it.
That's pretty much impossible.
But other than that, your scheme is very close. The mother account will be the Foundation account. It will know the password.
Also good idea to use automated fees, tied to this account. Not sure if it will be feasible, but I will think about it.
I thought about a similar approach yesterday.
What will determin, which nodes will get a reward?
Completly random is gameable by setting up loads of fake nodes. Injecting additional transaction fees will hand out most money to those who process the most transactions (on which metric will the transaction processor be determined anyway?)
Is it possible to test a node and see if it actually helps to secure the network, by letting it process a test transaction/block? Is it possible to record how long a node has been active?
For any meaningful reward to nodes metrics are needed to determine which nodes should be rewarded.
Are you sure this will only be possible with an external program?
On the other hand, an external one might be interesting after all, as long as it is only needed to receive rewards to run a node.
Choice is important in that aspect.