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Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Merits 2 from 2 users
Re: [Diskusi] Analisa Teknikal Bitcoin buat day trader
by
Shakreen
on 05/05/2020, 15:46:36 UTC
⭐ Merited by AakZaki (1) ,roycilik (1)
Nah saya malah lebih suka analisis dari orang yang sedang tidak trading, rata2 analisis yang di berikan lebih neutral dan lebih valid, kalau mereka yang sedang trading melakukan Long rata2 bakal mencari celah analisis yang cenderung mendukung kenaikan harga atau sebaliknya Cheesy
Ampun suhu saya hanya mencoba belajar ada lebih banyak yg lebih kompeten dari pada saya dan saya hanya menyampaikan sesuai yg saya tau selebih nya waktu yang berbicara  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Dari tadi saya sudah coba nyari dari mana sampean narik garis Fibo nya, tapi ndak nemu2
ini saya tarik garis Fibo dari harga tertinggi pada bulan Februari, hasilnya Fibo 0.6 berada di range harga $7900
mungkin saya akan mendapatkan ilmu baru disini tentang Fibonacci
~snip~

 

benar yang dikatakan @roycilik sesuai tapi bagi saya....tidak harus hanya berpatok 1 fibo saja begitu juga indikator dll dalam hal ini saya mengambill garis fibo titik tertinggi di bulan agustus 2019 dan terendah di bulan maret 2020...mungkin terlalu jauh tp kita bisa mengukur track arah btc dari waktu ke waktu....ini menurut pribadi saya karna saya yakin setiap Analis pasti berbeda dengan gaya dan sgala sesuatunya

~snip~
Ada kabar angin yang mengatakan om Ricky ini punya kemampuan Scalping tingkat dewa :v
Wadau angin dari mana thu tuan ampun
pertama
scalping yg diutamakan bukan TA dan indikator atau apapun sich tp terlebih dalam hal emosi dan hati kita...karna jujur itu sangat berpengaruh jika kita tak mampu mengontrol nya saya yakin ketika masuk market akan grasak grusuk dan asal aja masuk sehingga jadi nya kita berjudi lah wong yg pakai indikator dan Ta aja masih bisa loss apa lagi yg seperti ini

ke 2 katakan lah kita mampu point 1
kita harus tentukan target kita sehari harus dpt berapa rupiah manage money dlm hal ini sangat penting jika target kita sehari 20$(dlm hal ini saya main di binance ) jika sudah target sudah jauh i market karna 100% ketika kita melihat market sedang onfire pasti kita mau masuk lagi dan lagi itu lah guna nya manage emosi dan kebanyakan org akan loss jika gak mampu tp ga jarang juga ada yg berhasil jg.....

ke 3 TF brapa yg kita mau pkai klu scalping gunakan (Tf 1menit 5menit 15menit 30menit) dan indikator yg biasa saya gunakan KDJ,blogerBAnd,Volume
main cepat karna kita scalping ambil 2$ lepas begitu seterus nya capek IYA tp klu disiplin 20$ setara 300rb sehari seminggu dah 2100 masak  kurang kerja pabrik aja ga sampai.... info tentang indikator KDJ,blogerBAnd,Volume bisa check langsung di google ya kak  Grin

jika kita main midletrem gunakan TF 1jam sampai 1D(hanya untuk mengamati pembukaan dan penutupan hari itu) mengenai indikator banyak bisa digunakan MACD,BB,SAR,RSI,STOCKRSI dll.....

semua diatas tidak selalu berhasil ada kalanya gagal tp lebih baik berusaha sampai kita bisa menenukan gaya treding milik kita sendiri dan itu pasti akan membuat kita nyaman....

jika ada salah kata atau pun info yg kurang berkenan mohon maap saya hanya pemula suhu disini pasti lebih expert dari saya 

NOTE "Selalu percaya Dengan diri sendiri ...." ^^
Terima kasih ^^
Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Merits 3 from 3 users
Re: [Diskusi] Analisa Teknikal Bitcoin buat day trader
by
Shakreen
on 03/05/2020, 16:47:35 UTC
⭐ Merited by roycilik (1) ,AakZaki (1) ,masulum (1)
Helooo semua para empunya suhu-suhu disini tak terasa lama juga ya ane ga update dan sekedar mengamati saja .....berhubung
kesibukan sudah kosong iseng-iseng ane buat Teknikal Analis BTC langsung saja....prikitiew  Grin Grin Grin

Indikator:

Fibonacci Retracement
Fan fibonacci (MANUAL)


PICTURE 1

dalam hal ini menunjukan pergerakan BTC sangat luar biasa dpt dilihat BTC bisa turun kurang lebih ke 4000$ dan bisa bound kembali ke atas ... dan sekarang di perdagang kan dikisaran harga 8800$-9000$ banyak faktor sehingga BTC bisa rebound kembali terutama berita tengang HALVING BTC

PICTURE 2

BTC masih konsisten  bergerak di antara Fibo 0,618 dan 0,5 bisa di bilang saat ini pasar BTC masih mengalami stag dan sedang menentukan arah antara naik ataupun akan turun dan bisa dilihat lebih jelas di gambar nomer 3

PICTURE 3

BTC masih berada didalam kotak tepat nya tadi siang sempat menyentuh sekitar 91xx dan mengalami reject rate dan turun ke kisaran 8800(ketika tread ini di buat) ketika btc tdk mampu bertahan dan turun kembali titik dibawah 8816 akan menjadi penentuan akankah mampu bertahan dan mengalami pantulan kembali keatas atau malah jebol dan menuju 7955 support ke 2 selanjut nya dalam hal ini kita masih blom seberapa kuat dorongan beli dan jual

* KESIMPULAN *
jika BTC mampu bertahan dan mengalami pantulan dan menembus resist di 91xx dan 95xx maka kemungkinan terbesar btc bisa mencapai 10.xxx tetapi jika tak mampu dan turun ke area 8000 kemungkinan terburuk btc bisa kembali ke 4000.....
dan salah satu news HV BTC bisa menambah daya dongkrak untuk naik lebih tinggi mari kita berharap yg terbaik mengenai rate BTC
ambil selalu safty juga mengingat dunia juga mengalami krisis pedemic corona....

TF 4HOURS :

Resist 1  : 91xx-92xx
resist  2  : 95xx
resist  3  : 10.4xx

 
Support 1 : 88xx
support 2  :84XX
supoort 3 : 79xx-80xx
support 4 : 59XX-60XX


NOTE "Selalu percaya Dengan diri sendiri ...." ^^
Terima kasih ^^
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: What happens to BITCOIN next ?
by
Shakreen
on 29/12/2019, 16:04:25 UTC
It's good to use analysis by people to predict the next market value of bitcoin but there is always one thing people need to understand. This is that, the entire bitcoin market and ecosystem is 80% unpredictable and do not really follow the analysis made by experts. You just have to be open minded in order to understand some aspects of the bitcoin market...
I agree with you ... not as long as technical analysts are able to predict what the market is considering the bitcoin market is always fluctuating and changing always there are other aspects that can hitchhike and change everything ... but I'm just here to give an idea about BITCOIN using the TA that I learned ......
Thanks for your advice

interesting thing from the analysis made, but there is no blame for making analysis and prediction at least there is a mixture that can be held and can be a reference. but it must be remembered also that bitcoin is very difficult to predict and many have done it but nothing can be right and make sure how bitcoin will move.
~snip~
Thanks for your constructive advice .... for honest reference i don't have other than i learned from google in determining support and resist and also learned a lot about indicators in TA, i also learned from twitter some people like johnMcAfee, Tom lee and my others I just learned and am still new to TA but I will try my best .....

Of course, it's nice to learn something new and try to apply it. But technical analysis is not something well-respected. It's just a strategy of making predictions, not a strategy of telling the future. And I believe one can do all sorts of things to come up with numbers and stuff, but at best it can lead to a probabilistic conclusion ~snip~
I agree with you TA analysts are only to help us better understand the market movement of BITCOIN and certainly not to know the future in the market with certainty...
This is only a precautionary measure what will happen but it all comes back to each of us trusting or not

Why only consider the SUPPORT 1 = $ 64xx, there are support line before it?
The Fibo certainly works differently to the forex platform fibo so I'm not sure how the trading fibo tool to be accurate at pointing out which supports are stronger.  But to me $73xx and $69xx are considered to be support already as we break it. That means the battle again will continue when prices dips that level.
In case price dips at that certain level, that's also a bigger opportunities for investors who still planned to venture with bitcoin. Tools like fibo always have the capability to do the basic trading as well, first of all as you take control of that decisions made; our personal principles will be the first priority. When we seek for other options, just take the opportunity of your alternative resources which you can use at any random state.
Thanks you for @AliMan for helping me explain, I just want to add a little to @bittraffic, of course the possibilities are always there but in my opinion each time frame also determines the support and resistance points of a TA could be and did not rule out the possible support points on TF 1H is different from TF in 4H, D1, D4 ... etc BUT nothing is certain in this case thinking TA only helps us to take action

Good analysis, I agree with most of it, but I disagree with you on two points. The quotation is below:

~snip~
Resistance levels at $ 6,400 require something to happen that pushes the price down for that level, something that has not been proven yet, so it is not likely "in the current circumstances" to see a decline of that level.
If the decline is confirmed below 6,400, we will not stop at $ 5,000, as there is no historical resistance at $ 4,000, so the levels of $ 3,000 are more likely.

So SUPPORT 1 & SUPPORT 2 are just temporary support levels.
I agree with your opinion that in TA we always have to consider everything temporarily without exception because in the bitcoin market price movements are always fast and fluctuating and cannot be predicted precisely so let's hope for the best for bitcoin prices


~snip~
as a trader I have not tried how to use the Fibonacci indicator, usually I only use the RSI and MACD indicators no more, but as a trader I understand because not all have the same way of thinking and always have a different point of view in analyzing, I see buying support in $ 5500 isn't sure it's at $ 44xx, but it's nice to see your Fibonacci

I hope that with this tread, it can open up your wider view of TA and its indicators ...
There is still so much we have to learn and let's get dizzy together wkwkwkkw   Grin Grin Grin
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Topic OP
What happens to BITCOIN next ?
by
Shakreen
on 28/12/2019, 17:37:16 UTC
hello guys...
I just learned about technical analysis of BITCOIN

Indikator:
1. FIBONACCI FAN (MANUAL)
2. FIBONACCI RETRACEMENT
3. TF 4H


Picture 1st


Picture 2nd


"Conclusion"

In the 1st picture, it can be seen that BTC still tends to stagnate in FIBO (0.50)
and trying to BREAKOUT and above,
BTC is now trying to get out of the FIBO line (0.5) and the next target if BTC succeeds BREAKOUT will go to FIBO (0.618)
can be seen for more clearly in the second picture.

In the second picture at least the BTC must BREAKOUT around the price of $ 74xx and the next target BREAKOUT is $ 79xx and go to fibo (0.618) in this phase if the BTC is stable there will be a PUMP and DUMP between $ 74xx to $ 79xx and the next BREAKOUT determination will be at the $ 76xx line and if it works BREAKOUT it will continue to $ 81xx (fibo 0.618) and you could say BTC starts showing TRENDBULL if this happens

BUT if BTC is currently unable to break through BREAKOUT it will go down at around $ 68xx and if this support is unable to hold it will continue down to SUPPORT $ 64xx like a few days ago and also from the second picture shows that the SUPPORT test is 2x and doesn't rule out the possibility will test for the 3x (HOPE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN) and next to SUPPORT $ 44xx and if this condition occurs then GET READY we are going to TRENDBEAR year hopefully this does not happen because it will greatly affect the level of trust of the BTC TREADER itself..

RESIST 1 = $ 81xx
RESIST 2 = $ 93xx

SUPPORT 1 = $ 64xx
SUPPORT 2 = $44xx



That's what I can explain, hopefully can provide benefits and useful information
Remember this is just a picture of all returning again to our beliefs that each is not always true
But at least it can give us an idea of ​​where this BTC is going
thank you

NOTE "Always believe in yourself ...." ^^
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Who holds the most bitcoins?
by
Shakreen
on 28/12/2019, 17:14:19 UTC
~snip~

It is for their own security, if they don't want to disclose how much Bitcoin they are holding at then it is their choice and we cannot force them to tell it and they are not oblige to tell those information to us too, so I don't see anything wrong for that, whether they are lying or not, it doesn't matter at all, what we should matter is what we are holding on our own.


yes I experienced it ...
from the loss of money,, lost time, for almost 2 years the bitcoin market experienced a significant decline and certainly not only from the treaders who were affected ... from miners, investors and many others who were affected...
we can only hope for the best and hopefully there will be a good solution in 2020 that can raise the price of the bitcoin market up or at least stable and not go down like in previous years
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Who holds the most bitcoins?
by
Shakreen
on 28/12/2019, 17:03:16 UTC
~snip~
It is for their own security, if they don't want to disclose how much Bitcoin they are holding at then it is their choice and we cannot force them to tell it and they are not oblige to tell those information to us too, so I don't see anything wrong for that, whether they are lying or not, it doesn't matter at all, what we should matter is what we are holding on our own.

Yes, I agree with all of you for mutual security, all we need is just how much data they have and we can analyze it ourselves, of course the more we have can help us somehow in development
bitcoin or even about market manipulation and other things but sometimes they are more comfortable not to reveal it ...
Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Merits 2 from 2 users
Re: [Diskusi] Analisa Teknikal Bitcoin buat day trader
by
Shakreen
on 28/12/2019, 15:28:26 UTC
⭐ Merited by AakZaki (1) ,roycilik (1)
Hello sesepuh dan tetua.. Cheesy Cheesy
Saya akan melanjutkan Chart Bitcoin beberapa hari yang lalu saya posting disini.....



TF 4HOURS
Resist 1 : 81xx
resist  2  : 93xx
resist  3  : 10.4xx

 
Support 1 : 64xx
support 2 : 44xx


Sesuai dengan chart Btc beberapa hari yang lalu sekitar tanggal 18/19 desember mengalami DUMP parah hingga menyentuh support $64xx
walaupun akhir nya naik kembali dan stabil sampai skarang di 72xx-73xx


Perkembangan chart BTC TF 4H

Indikator:
1. FIBONACCI FAN (manual)
2. FIBONACCI RETRACEMENT


GAMBAR KE 1 :



GAMBAR KE 2:



"Kesimpulan "

Pada gambar ke 1 bisa dilihat btc masih cenderung stagnan di FIBO (0,50)
dan berusaha untuk BREAKOUT keatas,
BTC sekarang sedang berusaha keluar dari garis FIBO (0,5) dan target berikut nya jika BTC berhasil BREAKOUT akan ke FIBO (0,618)

bisa dilihat untuk lebih jelas pada gambar ke 2 .

Pada gambar ke 2 setidak nya BTC harus BREAKOUT dikisaran harga  $74xx dan target BREAKOUT selanjut nya $79xx dan lanjut ke fibo (0,618) pada fase ini jika BTC stabil maka akan terjadi PUMP dan DUMP antara $74xx sampai $79xx dan penentuan BREAKOUT selanjut nya di garis $76xx dan jika berhasil BREAKOUT maka akan lanjut ke $81xx (fibo 0,618) dan bisa dibilang BTC mulai menunjukan TRENDBULL jika ini terjadi

TETAPI jika BTC saat ini tidak mampu menembus BREAKOUT maka akan turun dikisaran harga $68xx dan jika support ini tidak mampu bertahan akan lanjut turun menuju SUPPORT $64xx seperti beberapa hari yang lalu dan juga dari gambar ke 2 menunjukan sudah test SUPPORT 2x dan tidak menutup kemungkinan akan test untuk ke 3x nya ( SEMOGA INI TIDAK TERJADI) dan selanjutnya ke SUPPORT $44xx dan jika kondisi ini terjadi maka BERSIAP_SIAP lah kita menuju tahun TRENDBEAR semoga hal ini tidak terjadi karna akan sangat berpengaruh dengan tingkat kepercayaan TREADER BTC itu sendiri


TF 4HOURS

RESIST 1 = $ 81xx
RESIST 2 = $ 93xx


SUPPORT 1 = $ 64xx
SUPPORT 2 = $44xx



Begithulah yang dapat saya jelaskan semoga bisa memberikan manfaat dan berguna informasinya
Ingat ini hanya gambaran semua kembali lagi dengan ke keyakinan kita masing-masing tidak selalu benar
Tapi setidaknya bisa memberikan kita gambaran ke mana arah BTC ini akan terjadi
Terima kasih

NOTE "Selalu percaya Dengan diri sendiri ...." ^^

Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin goal million dollars
by
Shakreen
on 27/12/2019, 20:57:20 UTC
I spend a lot of my time observing the market even though I do not have much bitcoin, and I am very confident that it will penetrate a million dollars in the coming years.

1 million dollars?  everything can happen considering the development of bitcoin is very rapid but if possible don't expect to reach 1 million dollars.
It takes a very long time to arrive at that price but everything can still happen.....
The bitcoin market is very  fluctuating
Let's hope for the best for bitcoin
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: How much bitcoin to buy?
by
Shakreen
on 26/12/2019, 11:07:29 UTC
I recently purchased bitcoin, it was the most I have ever put into a cryptocurrency. 
This is going to be a long term buy, This was taken out of stock money,
Now that I have done this I feel more excited about
where bitcoin is headed than  I do about stocks. Now I feel like I should take more out of
Stocks, Feel there’s going to be more return this way. Thoughts on this am I getting carried away



I appreciate what you do considering that there are so many out there still weighing the advantages and disadvantages of buying and storing bitcoin ... a little advice from me is to read more news about bitcoin so you can get developments about bitcoin ... and finally I pray  for you and everyone good luck always in bitcoin ....
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Who holds the most bitcoins?
by
Shakreen
on 23/12/2019, 14:47:14 UTC
I think every person has the right to claim they have information about who is the highest winner of BITCOIN But in my opinion they won't tell you how much they have bitcoin ...
Why?  individually maybe they don't want to be too publicly released, maybe another reason they are afraid of being taxed well we know that some countries have started taxing bitcoin and I think it's natural to remember the very rapid development of bitcoin
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin on 3rd January?
by
Shakreen
on 23/12/2019, 14:36:14 UTC
I think this is only to slowly control the price of BITCOIN .... some people might be trying to make the price of BITCOIN rise higher next year 2020
Yes, we always hope that the price of bitcoin will always increase from year to year because the future of BITCOIN will be the determinant of the progress of the digital age
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Re: Can i Bitcoin or not
by
Shakreen
on 19/12/2019, 16:41:19 UTC
I realy want to buy Bitcoin i have 5000$ give good idea plz

You can buy at one excherger in your country ...
And I think some exchergers can accept credit cards to buy BITCOIN,
So I think the process for now and in the future is very easy.
Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Re: [Diskusi] Analisa Teknikal Bitcoin buat day trader
by
Shakreen
on 19/12/2019, 16:06:20 UTC
~snip~
Quote
1. volume naik harga turun berindikasi Bull OR bear ?

Ini adalah indikasi dari Bullish Divergence yang bisa dianggap sebagai signal akan terjadi pembalikan trend (reversal) menuju kondisi bullish (harga naik)
Quote
2. volume turun harga naik berindikasi Bull OR bear ?[/color]
Jika indikator volume yang digunakan mengalami penurunan sedangkan indikator harga malah bergerak ke arah sebaliknya (naik) maka hal ini bisa dianggap sebagai Bearish Divergence, sehingga kemungkinan besar harga akan mengalami penurunan (bearish)

~snip~


Volume pada nomer 1 cukup tinggi tapi harga menunjukkan turun.
Sedangkan Volume pada nomer 2 lebih tinggi lagi dan harga menunjukkan naik.

Namun cara seperti ini tidak bisa dijadikan sebagai patokan atau rumus pasti.

Alangkah baiknya jika semua digabungkan bersama indikator yang lain seperti : om Abhie katakan di atas.

Saya ucapkan terima kasih atas Informasi dan petuah para sepuh disini...
sedikit demi sedikit saya mulai paham dengan pengertian tentang volume dalam chart candle stick
dan setiap indikator yang digunakan selalu BERHUBUNGAN satu dengan yang lain nya.....

  Terima kasih....
"TukangMagang"
Post
Topic
Board Off-topic
Re: Christmas Promotion
by
Shakreen
on 19/12/2019, 09:03:07 UTC
in my country .... one of the exchangers held a contest
if i get a car get it
I think it's a Christmas and New Year gift for me

https://blog.indodax.com/trading-contest-hadir-kembali-di-indodax
 Grin Grin Grin
Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Re: [Diskusi] Analisa Teknikal Bitcoin buat day trader
by
Shakreen
on 19/12/2019, 07:46:30 UTC
Permisi para suhu dan sesepuh disini
ijin kan saya bertanya mengingat disini membahas tentang TEKNIKAL ANALIS Bitcoin
saya tidak terlalu paham dengan peningkatan VOLUME dan penurunan VOLUME itu sendiri
yang saya mau tanyakan

1. volume naik harga turun berindikasi Bull OR bear ?
2. volume turun harga naik berindikasi Bull OR bear ?


yang saya tau hanya ketika volume turun dan harga ikut turun akan terjadi BEAR berkepanjangan hingga terjadi pengurangan volume sell itu yg menjadi tanda2 pembalikan tren
bgthu juga sebalik nya harga naik dan volume juga ikut naik bisa dibilang mengalami tren BULL hingga sampai pengurangan volume Buy dan terjadi pemballikan harga dan tren..

terima kasih.....
Post
Topic
Board Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Re: Cara Trading Kripto yang Bener Sesuai Analisa para Expert
by
Shakreen
on 19/12/2019, 07:17:15 UTC
Saya rasa ada yang salah dalam penerapan judul yang saudara buat dengan penjelasan tentang ekosistem bitcoin....
Saya yakin para TRADER EXPERT sekalipun,mereka akan selalu mengunakan Analisis mereka entah dalam grafik maupun pengunaan data-data pendukung seperti berita-berita yang postive maupun negative...
Dan juga penjelasan menganai tips2 yang saudara terapkan juga kurang mendetail.....seakan-akan hanya copy-paste saja
jadi mungkin bisa diperbaiki
thanks
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: 10 Reasons Why Bitcoin Is Strong Today And Will Continue To Grow
by
Shakreen
on 17/12/2019, 19:20:38 UTC
I agree with ten points that have been detailed ... indirectly bitcoin will become an asset where we can make it for payment tools and also have investment value for the medium to long term ... bitcoin is also very vital for the current financial revolution  this is especially for young people who continue to be innovated with the progress of the age .... so let's hope and dream that bitcoin will always evolve for the future
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Why are so few women buying into Bitcoin?
by
Shakreen
on 10/12/2019, 12:46:35 UTC
I think it's only natural considering that women will only remember about shopping lol ... if I were you change the way you introduce BITCOIN take them to the mall places that adopt bitcoin as payment and I will make sure they will remember how to open a wallet
what's more if you fill it with $ 1000 ... and you will be even crazier because they will ask for all your BITCOIN just to shop lol  Grin Grin
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin Daily Living
by
Shakreen
on 10/12/2019, 12:31:39 UTC
in theory,I don't always use bitcoin every day ...
I prioritize future investments rather than using bitcoin every day ...
Because I'm sure bitcoin will have a brightly proven future ... with a few shops and several franchises has adopted BITCOIN and it is possible that world banks will use it as an interbank transfer ......
I hope The best for BITCOIN
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Reasons to be thankful than hate him
by
Shakreen
on 10/12/2019, 11:36:58 UTC
Since a long time ago ... if someone has something new and useful for the future, they will always be blasphemed and pouted.
For example Thomas Alva Edison, Albert Einstein and many more, but seeing that what they did in the past is very useful for us now ...
And i believe the same thing will happen to BITCOIN in all sectors ...
Maybe now MR SATOSHI is being blasphemed and even hated by various parties but for bitcoiner he is a very great person because some of us have his future changed ......