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Showing 20 of 127 results by SmokeJoe
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Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 17/04/2019, 06:59:06 UTC
well, in my opinion ICO is not a profit, it is a means to fund development, marketing and operations, which they (wings) seem to continuously be doing for more than 3 years (i think project was started in April 2016 or so) ? Lets remember they raised afair 1.7 or 1.8 million, not 15 and certainly not 100.

To be precise, they raised about 2000 BTC, which on the day of the ICO was worth 895.67 USD per BTC. Note that on the way BTC rised significantly, even to 20 000 USD at some point. It is unknown how much exactly they sold and how many millions they have, but it is definitely way more than is needed for development of such project. But they deserve it, since people gave them money willingly, just like any other ICO project. I agree with you, that the exact number is unknown and there is lack of transparency, but lack of transparency is something that characterises most ICOs and Wings was not the only one to never report how many funds they had and on what they are spending it, but it is something that you could accuse many other ICOs as well, so IMO not that relevant and I don't really care if they took some of that money for themselves via creative accounting like many other ICOs did, since it is standard practice here and noone minds it as long as some of that money is spend on the project. I am just disappointed by having multimillion sum from ICO  and not spending it on marketing and PR and other things that might benefit the token holders. But I am not here to ask questions what happened to the 2000 BTC and how much of it was spent, if you are curious about it you can further pursue this issue. I am here to ask, why a project that has millions of dollars is not spending fraction of that money on professional PR in times of crisis like this (when price is plummeting, bug cased people lose trust in the project, exchanges are delisting)? Is it so hard to spend some of that mony on additional paid listing, hiring professional PR company to handle this, pay back people that lost money because of the bug, become more transparent about spending so far etc.

Quote
I actually checked this now and according to the terms, only 6% was given to the foundation (and another 14m to core members personally vested over 36 months, but thats personal tokens). So thats 6M wings belonging to the foundation from which i assume they needed to incentivise employees, pay bills and who knowns what else, like any other company that has an asset.
Even if they did forecast using the tokens (which i'm not sure they did as i couldn't find anything about it in the quick search i did), what makes you think they actually made a profit ? (forecasted correctly or sold the tokens that were received as a reward). if they did forecast, it would actually be logical if they didn't sell the reward tokens as that would be a warning sign for potential projects ("hey look the foundation dumps our tokens so we won't give a reward").
and lets say that you are right and they did forecast and they did make a reward which they did sell. how big do you think that reward was considering the fact that they were 1 forecast out of hundreds and considering that they probably had a significant number of employees ?

Exactly! 6% is a lot, when you look at the numbers that they gave multiple times, stating that the rewards they gave away so far were worth 120 million USD on the day of the ICO (and note that some of them pumped significatly immediately after launch). Assuming they were average with they answers at best (but do you think the were just average?) it was additional millions of profit. And remember, this is for project only, not including personal rewards of the individual team members. And it was stated multiple times the are using those tokens belonging to the Foundation for forecasting (which they have right to do, this is source of additioal profit for the project). If the numbers you provided are correct, it means they earned ton of money and why it is not spent on some paid exchanges listing, PR, giving money back to the people who lost it because of their bug and additional marketing is beyond me. It might be in their interest to wait for Wings.ai to fall to be able to cash out rest of the money and move to the next project, it might be simply poor management or it might be something else, but the fact is they are not spending this money right. Examples what should be done are in my previous posts.

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that's actually incorrect. none of the examples i gave reimbursed people, because they all don't charge people for using their software (despite potentially making a profit from user data or what not)

That's my point. You gave examples of project that did not reimburse, while I was talking about those that did reimburse. This is why I stated that some did and some did not. Wings decided to be in a group that moves full responsibility to the users and does not reimburse in any way, which is their choice, but it also gives a vibe "do not trust our smart contracts, becasue in case there is another bug in them (or in the UI) and your money is lost, we will not pay you anything". So once again, you are free to do this, but then do not expect people to trust you and don't be surprised that the price is declining.

There is no point to discuss it any further.
We now see (partly to your research) that they have lots of of money.
We also do not know how they are exactly spending it (which is industry standard, we all know those ICOs had more money than they needed anyway).
We also see not much is being done to regain the trust (no effort to figure out how many people lost money because of the bug and paying those people back, no immediate PR statement, not spending money on additonal marketing).
Some might think it is OK (like you), some might think it is wrong (like me). The market will decide what happens next.
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 15/04/2019, 18:19:22 UTC
Regarding Wings not making profit: it actually does make profit, but with different model. Exchanges take percentage from transactions, Wings had two income sources: the ICO (people paying in advance for a service being built) and significant amount of Wings was given to the Foundation, so they are getting significant amount of each successfully forecasted reward (so this is a lot of money!). And regarding the examples of projects you gave, that’s exactly my point, some reimbursed people, others did not. Ignoring this issue something that only biggest players can afford to do and Wings is not in a position to do something that will further damage it’s reputation. As I said before, Wings will do whatever they want, and the market will verify if it was smart and fair decision.
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 15/04/2019, 14:34:36 UTC
The withdrawal problem was completely unrelated to the delist announcement. What happened is that everyone started unlocking at same time and the backend had to process a lot of transactions, however the backend missed a number of these transactions due to block reogranization on the Ethereum network (https://medium.com/blockvigil/how-we-deal-with-chain-reorganization-at-ethvigil-5a8c06859c7).

The team has started to work on a fix almost instantly after the issue was found and on the next day  a fix was uploaded which allowed the backend to work correctly with the ethereum block reorganization. Just one of the issues you don't know its there until it happens unfortunately.

Thanks for clearing it up. I took the liberty to check and it seems to be correct

Noone denies that it was a technical problem.
Good to know what exactly is an issue and it is good the team disclosed it and took investigating it seriously.
It is the solution that disappoints, though. Your actions simply state: you can not trust our system (or: you should take 100% risk for using our system).

Nothing illegal with that of course.
But it's like with the exchanges Many of them them encounter a technical issues (sometimes hacks, sometimes simply malfunctions).
Some of them are helping their users recoupl their losses, and some are simply saying "well, it was a hack/technical issue, you took the risk".
Too bad that Wings chose the latter path. As I said before, I was not personally affected since my tokens were on the exchange anyway, but I was affected indirectly, because the way this was handled hit Wings's reputation and perhaps indirectly resulted in further price decline.

You can do as you wish, but probably best action here would be:
- apologise instantly
- figure out how many funds were lost and by how many people
- use some of the project's funds to pay back people who lost money because of your bug (you have millions guys, those loses were probably tiny compared to that)
- launch full and transparent internal investigation and publish it's results

You chose different path and you have right to do so, but the crypto community has a right to judge you.
I guess the market in the following months will decide if it is fair in such circumstances to simply blame it on technical issue.

IMO the trust in the project is lost now after all that happened (weird direction with free listings with no rewards, then funds locked in smart contract, then disappointing solution to that).

I will not comment on this matter any further, but I could bet that the following will happen now: the team will continue to ignore the bad PR that this whole thing brought to them, they will continue open sourcing the project (which is good), but they will not spend any money for relevant things like paying people back or marketing or sponsored forecasts etc., they will wait couple of months for people to forget about the projects and they will move to other ventures (which is understandable and standard in startup business, but you should guys at least try fixing that before you move further).
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 09/04/2019, 21:02:40 UTC
And what about that shady thing with unlocking wings being unavailable at the day of Binance delisting announcement? That was the most shady things here. Was it ever established if it was an inside job or something else and was it ever established how many people lost how much money because of that (what was the scale of it? We need a report) and were they ever refunded (and it so, was the refund sufficient or simply some kind of consolation prize). That lockout was very suspicious and basically killed trust in the project. Still holding though because no point selling at this stage.

There was a bug that has already been fixed.


Well, everyone knows there was a bug but that’s not the real question. That’s quite convenient that the bug happened when the delisting news was announced. Why some people were able to unlock and some not? How many people were affected ane how much money they lost because of that incident? Were they refunded and if so how much of their losses? What Wings is planning to do to regain the trust after that convenient incident? Was there investigation to prove who was responsible for that and if perhaps it was an inside job and only some insiders were able to withdraw while regular users could not? Couple of big accounts were liquidated on that day while many others were locked, please check on block explorer. I am still holding my wings as an investment but after that incident I would never lock it in your contract knowing that in case of black swan scenario another convenient bug could happen, preventing users from moving the wings out of the contract while some big accounts are selling freely. Give us lists of addresses affected and some explanation and results of your internal investigation.


You can always unlock directly without using ui via smart contract.

Bug was only on ui/backend.


As I said, it didn’t directly affect me since my wings were not locked since I found it more profitable to trade it on the exchanges, but what you are actually saying basically confirms what I stated above, that basically on the day of the delisting announcement only insiders and people who figured out the alternatives to your interface were able to withdraw, while regular users were unable to sell and needed to wait till those groups sell and then conveniently the issue was fixed. If you don’t see it as reason for internal investigation and figuring out who profited on this the most and how many people lost their money and that trust was damaged I don’t know how to make you take this more seriously. Red flag till there is investigation and blog post on it instead of trying to diminish it.


You are reaching for some conspiracy, everyone knew about this contract bug and not a single person lost funds.

Delisting was a surprise event to all, especially WINGS team. Yet , here you are ... arguing with legit source, demanding, rambling on with this nonsense about the 'timing' of an simple API smart contract bug in the UI. 

Who hurt you?



How about you go to the Wings Telegram and scroll up to the date of the delisting announcement and check all those comments from people who are unable to unlock their tokens, while the price tanks? Yes, people lost money. Yes, it seems they were unable to sell, while some big accounts were selling. Those are all facts that you can check on the block explorer and Telegram.
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 08/04/2019, 11:50:42 UTC
And what about that shady thing with unlocking wings being unavailable at the day of Binance delisting announcement? That was the most shady things here. Was it ever established if it was an inside job or something else and was it ever established how many people lost how much money because of that (what was the scale of it? We need a report) and were they ever refunded (and it so, was the refund sufficient or simply some kind of consolation prize). That lockout was very suspicious and basically killed trust in the project. Still holding though because no point selling at this stage.

There was a bug that has already been fixed.


Well, everyone knows there was a bug but that’s not the real question. That’s quite convenient that the bug happened when the delisting news was announced. Why some people were able to unlock and some not? How many people were affected ane how much money they lost because of that incident? Were they refunded and if so how much of their losses? What Wings is planning to do to regain the trust after that convenient incident? Was there investigation to prove who was responsible for that and if perhaps it was an inside job and only some insiders were able to withdraw while regular users could not? Couple of big accounts were liquidated on that day while many others were locked, please check on block explorer. I am still holding my wings as an investment but after that incident I would never lock it in your contract knowing that in case of black swan scenario another convenient bug could happen, preventing users from moving the wings out of the contract while some big accounts are selling freely. Give us lists of addresses affected and some explanation and results of your internal investigation.


You can always unlock directly without using ui via smart contract.

Bug was only on ui/backend.


As I said, it didn’t directly affect me since my wings were not locked since I found it more profitable to trade it on the exchanges, but what you are actually saying basically confirms what I stated above, that basically on the day of the delisting announcement only insiders and people who figured out the alternatives to your interface were able to withdraw, while regular users were unable to sell and needed to wait till those groups sell and then conveniently the issue was fixed. If you don’t see it as reason for internal investigation and figuring out who profited on this the most and how many people lost their money and that trust was damaged I don’t know how to make you take this more seriously. Red flag till there is investigation and blog post on it instead of trying to diminish it.
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 08/04/2019, 11:24:16 UTC
And what about that shady thing with unlocking wings being unavailable at the day of Binance delisting announcement? That was the most shady things here. Was it ever established if it was an inside job or something else and was it ever established how many people lost how much money because of that (what was the scale of it? We need a report) and were they ever refunded (and it so, was the refund sufficient or simply some kind of consolation prize). That lockout was very suspicious and basically killed trust in the project. Still holding though because no point selling at this stage.

There was a bug that has already been fixed.


Well, everyone knows there was a bug but that’s not the real question. That’s quite convenient that the bug happened when the delisting news was announced. Why some people were able to unlock and some not? How many people were affected ane how much money they lost because of that incident? Were they refunded and if so how much of their losses? What Wings is planning to do to regain the trust after that convenient incident? Was there investigation to prove who was responsible for that and if perhaps it was an inside job and only some insiders were able to withdraw while regular users could not? Couple of big accounts were liquidated on that day while many others were locked, please check on block explorer. I am still holding my wings as an investment but after that incident I would never lock it in your contract knowing that in case of black swan scenario another convenient bug could happen, preventing users from moving the wings out of the contract while some big accounts are selling freely. Give us lists of addresses affected and some explanation and results of your internal investigation.
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched!
by
SmokeJoe
on 07/04/2019, 10:50:34 UTC
And what about that shady thing with unlocking wings being unavailable at the day of Binance delisting announcement? That was the most shady things here. Was it ever established if it was an inside job or something else and was it ever established how many people lost how much money because of that (what was the scale of it? We need a report) and were they ever refunded (and it so, was the refund sufficient or simply some kind of consolation prize). That lockout was very suspicious and basically killed trust in the project. Still holding though because no point selling at this stage.
Post
Topic
Board Scam Accusations
Re: Hashcard.io a scam [Confirmed]
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/05/2018, 07:27:21 UTC
Nice explantion of how Hash Card scam works. Share this with people on Telegram.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3978540.msg37758579#msg37758579
Post
Topic
Board Tokens (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN]HashCard: Revolutionising HOW You Use Credit & Debit Cards
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/05/2018, 07:16:45 UTC
Nice explantion of how Hash Card scam works. Share this with people on Telegram.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3978540.msg37758579#msg37758579
Post
Topic
Board Scam Accusations
Hash Card escam explained
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/05/2018, 07:15:40 UTC
you may have noticed recently advertisement of HASH CARD scam project
they spent  quite decent amount of money for advertisements and are having quite big bounty programme
and one has to admit - it is one of the smartest scams in crypto to date, so no wonder why so many people fell into this trap
how does hash card scam works? here is everything explained with a proofs

What does Hash Card promise?
Working crypto debit card + being listed on top exchanges

Many people lured by those promised donated money to this ICO (yes, it is a donation, check the terms of the ICO, you are basically giving them money and they can do whatever they want with it and you are not allowed to complain).

The card part of the scam explained

Hash Card promised to send working card during ICO to make them more credible. And yes indeed, I believe they will send those cards, but those are not regular cards, those are so called prepaid cards. They might be working after ICO but they might be easily terminated by the bank, but Hash Card team does not care, because what they need is working card during ICO, to be able to extract even more money (imagine how many people more will beleive in this project after the cards are delivered during ICO). After ICO ends bank can simply terminate those carde and if  you read terms of the ICO there is nothing you can do about it. Note that Hash Card DOES NOT have partnership with Mastercard (they are not even claiming it, because that would be illegal, notice there are no mastercard logos on theier site, because otherwise ICO would be taken down immediately).

So yes, you will get a working card.
But it can stop working at any moment after ICO.

They even call those cards tempory in their e-mails to make things legaly OK.

The exchanges part of the scam explained

But no, if you are donating (!) money to them hoping that Hash Card tokens will have any value, you are wrong.
Hash Card token itself will have no value.
Best way to determine it is to look for whales investing in the project. THey usually do best dilligence of the project. Notice there are no whales here. Perhaps Hash Card devs will notice them and send some more money buy themselves to make it look better (they will get it back after ICO anyway).

Many people donated to this ICO to get some Hash Card tokens. They were lured by promises of the exchanges. Hash Card devs went even that far that they placed logos of various REAL exchanges on their website promising it will be listed there (Bancor, KuCoin, HitBTC, Binance). To make the SCAM more realistic they even made agreement with Bancor (which is the cheapest of those excahnges to get listed). They even released PR statement with Bancor about Bancor listing Hash Card (both Bancor and Hash Card posted it on the Twitter and additionally Bancor posted it on the blog). It was smart move, because spending some money during ICO for Bancor would give them additional  credibility to get even more money in the scam ICO. After Bancor's inner investigation Bancor removed all the Twitter and blog posts about Hash Card because people notified the project that it is a scam. Hash Card team then lied about supposed agreement with Binance. Of course as you know Binance never announces their listing in advance. This is the point where even the biggest noobs realised that Hash Card is a scam. They demanded their money back. Biggest bahholders (people who invested too much money in this) started to defend the project on thhe Telegram and admins started kickign people out and deleting their post (pasting this text there and you will be kicked out immediately). Hash Card even sent e-mail to ICO participants in which they lied about their partnership with Binance, which made Binance angry enough that Binance admins posted warnings about hash card scam on their telegram and their twitter, you can check binance twitter and telegram here:
https://t.me/binanceexchange/1693994 - Binance executive explaining on Telegram that haschcard is a scam
https://twitter.com/Teddy_Lin/status/997410681128300546 - here Head of International Markets @ Binance is calling hash card a scam and informs it will never be listed on binance and that it is a lie and scam project - head of binance calling them scam!

Many peopl already lost money on this.
Help others not to fall into this trap.

Copy text below and paste it on their telegram to warn people:

"Hash Card explained. There was never Binance partnership and there will not be. Bancor partnership was terminated when they discovered it was a scam. You will get working cards but those are  not real cards only prepaid cards that will stop working after 2-3 weeks. Visit this thread for more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3978540.new#new"

Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/07/2017, 08:20:23 UTC
THE ONLY WAY HONORABLE WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS IS

1. SET BUYBACK FOR CURRENT CDT HOLDERS AND MAKE IT ACTIVE FOR NO MORE THAN 24 HOURS.
2. BURN REBOUGHT COINS, SEND THEM TO THE PEOPLE WHO DECIDED TO HOLD YOUR TOKEN AS A BONUS OR SELL LATER.
3. SEND TOKENS TO PEOPLE WHO SENT TO THE WRONG ADDRESS

DEAL WITH IT! THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE IS RECOMMENDING YOU!
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/07/2017, 08:15:31 UTC
It makes no sense to refund to 50% of the guys and those who got robbed wont be able to get refund.

So the simpler solution is to give every one CDT's

But do you understand that it is exactly the way of thinking that made CDT tradeable at 10% of the ICO price now on the exchange? Refunding those who would like to be refunded + giving the tokens to all the rest would make the token valuable. And currently it is trading at 10% ICO price here. Thanks to people who think like you.

https://etherdelta.github.io/#0x2fe6ab85ebbf7776fee46d191ee4cea322cecf51-ETH
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/07/2017, 08:12:15 UTC
Does anyone have active Reddit account here? We need to let Ethtrader know that those devs have our ETH and yet are planning to run away with it. Those people shall be finished in crypto if the do it. Give the fucking refund to people who want a refund and proceed to develop with the rest of the fund. Seriously, this needs to appear on Reddit but it is not possible to post from fresh accounts.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 19/07/2017, 06:28:49 UTC
This will not be listed on any exchange anyway.

People who shouted not to refund the white list destroyed the project for everyone.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 22:11:30 UTC
Devs, you might have misjudged in your initial opinion. There is nothing bad in changing your initial plan and do the good thing to do - allow current CDT holders from the white list to send them back for reimbursement if they wish to. Otherwise that is simple scam. Look, almost everyone in the community wants this. Even most of the people who were not on the white list because they understand this is the only way to make the project survive.

Guys, if the devs do not refund those from the white list who want to be refunded then they are confirmed scammers and be done in crypto like TheDAO guys. They are proven scammers now.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 21:51:56 UTC
CoinDash team needs to get this shit resolved quick.  Having people fill out forms but yet to distribute anything.  Why should they even have to fill it forms when it's all on the blockchain?  Do you plan to keep the CDT's of those who don't fill them out?  Also, people on the whitelist are demanding refunds.  Get your shit together and make something happen. 

just leave it. it was pure scam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNLob2E_Q5s

To be honest.  I do not think this project was intended to be a scam.  They would not spend the time and money marketing this project around the world for the past few months if it was.  They just fucked up big time with the lack of security for the website.  The team needs to come up with a plan that satisfies investors.  Allowing refunds must be an option and giving incentives for those who choose to stay in it. 



This makes sense but their attitude proves what many have suspected that they are scammers.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 21:50:39 UTC
With ETH going up those scammers will have more money that they initially wanted. What is stopping them now from issuing the rebuy for those people who actually hold tokens and want a rebuy? This was pure scam. Let's hope any big exchange will not list it.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 20:48:25 UTC
We got scammed by Coindash devs who refuse to buy back the worthless CDT token. If anyone has Reddit account share this on Ethtrader.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 20:23:12 UTC
I just can't comprehend why they wouldn't give whitelist the option to send the CDT back for a refund and then open it back up to anyone that does want to go in.  It makes no sense unless it was planned from the start.  Seems like the easiest way to start trying to build some credibility back.

Because they are scammers as it was proven here.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: COINDASH - Future of trading - Token Sale 17th July 2017
by
SmokeJoe
on 18/07/2017, 19:00:12 UTC
Any exchange where this is trading?