Why not sell all of the GPUs and go full into FPGA mining?  We have plenty motherboards for the foreseeable future (at least 4 FPGA boards per motherboard, possibly more, I need to do more research on how one goes about utilizing them.)  The page you linked said that they get at least 200 MHash/sec which implies that they can be pushed to do more (not sure what the expense is besides consuming more power, perhaps greater heat output?)  If heat output is the issue with these cards we should be sitting well, the cooling system we have in place now would not be hard to adapt to the new boards, if it needed to be adapted at all.

I have looked into these FPGA boards and I really like the idea.  We could sell all of our GPUs and buy FPGA boards with the money.  The only issue I see with that is that in the event of a Bitcoin crash, the boards might not resell for as much of a percentage of retail value as the GPUs, but I'm not sure about that point, if anyone would like to enlighten me.

I would like to hear other people's opinions on this.

In light of the recent issues GLBSE has had which have prevented some shareholders from voting, I will be putting up another motion as an extension to allow those who were unable to vote to have their say.  I also added clarification to the motion to clear up and confusion or questions concerning the liquidation.  The motion text is as follows:


If you are still having issues, please make sure to post them in the thread. 

No, I sell the hardware and the money that comes from selling it gets passed on to shareholders as dividends until there is no more hardware to sell.  An estimate of what you'll get out of it is around 0.87 BTC (at today's prices) per share you own.  [($9000 revenue/ 2.235 BTC/$) / 4608 shares]


To others: The time I logged is from straight working on computers.  It does not involve the time I spent driving around picking up materials, it doesn't cover gas, it doesn't cover wear on tools, it doesn't cover time spent on this project besides working directly with the computers, it doesn't cover internet costs, it doesn't cover insurance costs, and it doesn't cover property taxes, to name a few things it doesn't cover.  And that's just my things it doesn't cover.  The value from the contractors is straight time paid, it doesn't cover workman's comp, it doesn't cover the materials they donated, it doesn't cover gas, it doesn't cover their insurance, and it doesn't cover their fees, to name a few things it doesn't cover.

So here is the ultimatum: I will give you a total time logged.  I will give you the activities that that time was spent on.  I will give you a (non-comprehensive) list of materials that were donated or borrowed that otherwise would have had to have been bought.

Or I will sit down and basically audit myself and account for every screw, every plug, every wire, every second of my time, and bill the company for it all.  I will ask the contractors for bills.  These bills will be far greater than just time worked (which will also be on there, except at their actual working rates, far greater than the $30/hour or so I am giving them).  I will gladly post the proof of these bills from the contractors.  At that point there will be no going back, and the contractors will be paid their bills to the best ability of this company.  Their bills will be far greater than the $10,000 we could expect to make from the liquidation.  Investors will not see a single cent of it.

Perhaps some of you aren't grasping the magnitude of how much was given to this company to make it work.  I didn't collect dividends so this company could get off the ground.  I didn't charge for time spent so this company could get off the ground.  I called in a lot of favors from a lot of people to give me help for free so this company could get off the ground.  I am tired of people acting like that did not at all contribute to the company being profitable, and that it did not contribute to the dividends the investors got, and that it didn't contribute to the growth we were able to experience.

So here's the deal: say the word, and I will put up a motion concerning this.  I won't vote at all on this motion, it will be purely an investor vote.  Just keep in mind, if that motion goes towards asking for bills, there will be no going back, and there will be no money left for investors.

I'd like to point out that there is no guarantee that anyone in this thread is or ever was an investor and that they could be just causing a ruckus so they can get a bunch of computers for basically nothing.


"Enlisted the help of" would probably be a better term to use than contracted, in retrospect.  However, somewhere earlier in the thread I was asked if I had access to people who knew how to do the electrical work that was required, as well as the networking etc., that could help me and I said that I did.


This isn't some sort of underhanded deal to make money off of SIN, this was what I thought was a better option to help the company without sending a bill to the company and cutting into profits and growth, in addition to reinvesting my dividends.  However, if this is not an acceptable way of remuneration (trading shares of the company for my resources) I would be more than happy to write up a bill for the company, as would those who helped.  Everyone who invested was profiting off of the labor and resources provided at no charge to this company.  Every dividend that got paid out was due to this.  It is not without precedent to pay people for providing services for the company.


I will provide such documentation in a motion later for shareholders to peruse.

I will be posting this periodically over the next few days so investors who are just now coming into the thread know the situation.

To address some issues people have brought up recently: I contend that I have paid off my debt to the company between my reinvestment and the time and materials I have personally contributed, as well as the time and materials of others who contributed to the company.  $15837.93 is the amount of money that was raised by the company from the IPO.  I have paid back 202.7945 BTC back into the company for a value of $3411.58 through reinvestment of dividends, I put 30 BTC of my own from my time solo mining into the company at the beginning (when BTC was at around $7.50, so about $225 from that), I provided a building (with insurance) to house the machines which I valued at $200/month (far below what we would have actually paid to rent a space), and I provided at least $500 of materials to build racks and a cooling system.  In addition to that, I logged 243 hours working directly on this project, at a rate of $35/hour.  I also contracted the work of several others to help with electrical setup, rack setup, cooling setup, etc. as well as to help take care of the machines in the event that I was unable to attend to them.

I think that this is value I added to the company and value that I should be able to be remunerated for.  I do not think I am being unfair in any of the prices or rates I listed.  When all is said and done I have invested quite a bit of time and personal capital into this company that would have otherwise had to be paid for by the company, cutting into dividend payments and growth.  My investment has easily been worth the $15837.93 that investors contributed.

There are a few people in this thread who contend that I am a scammer and am running a Ponzi scheme and that I have broken countless laws and the contract that this company was set up under.  I have not scammed anyone, and no one can point at one thing I have done to scam the people who invested in this company.  This is obviously not a Ponzi scheme, as evidence by the output logged on btcmine.com, illustrated by the graphs sharp provided for us.  The contention that it is against the contract to liquidate the company is literally the opposite of the truth; there is literally a clause dealing with the procedures of liquidating the company, which I quoted earlier in the thread.

I have done my best to operate this company to the benefit of the investors.  I have never done anything to try and scam anyone who invested.  You trusted me enough to give me, a complete stranger and unknown, the capital to start this enterprise.  There were a lot of bumps along the way and you still trusted me.  All I ask is that you keep trusting me and look through the few disgruntled people who loudly throw accusations around.

I said that he was not interested in buying the assets.


There have been maybe six or seven shareholders who have been expressing their opinions in this thread to allow for absorption, one of which would be the one acquiring SIN's assets.  I do not think this is a good sample, so I do not think it is wise to make this vote a dichotomy of either liquidation or absorption.  Just because we have had one offer does not mean it is the only one we can get, or the best one for the company.

That depends.  If we can sell it all off in one lot that would probably be the most preferable option, but this would be something for investors to discuss.  eBay would definitely be on the table.  I would be open to suggestions on how to best get the company liquidated.  As far as likely proceeds, the typical estimate would be half of the value of the equipment being sold.  That is an underestimate in my opinion however, as most of the hardware we have seems to be selling for over that value on eBay.  I think in total we can expect somewhere between nine and ten thousand dollars USD.  However this is just speculation, things could be better or worse, so I hesitate to make any definitive statement on the matter.

If this motion is voted down, we will then have a discussion on what action to take and vote accordingly.


A vote of yes is for liquidation.  A vote of no is against liquidation.  If the vote fails we will discuss what action is to be taken and then vote on that action.

I have started the motion concerning the liquidation of SIN, it's ID is 62 (I made a test motion with ID 61 to make sure everything was working correctly, so just ignore that one).  The motion text is as follows:


Voting will go until midnight the 22nd of November.  Hopefully this will be enough time for the majority of investors to vote.

Thank you very much, I will be updating later today and trying it out.  My problem right now is that any time I try to do a command that goes beyond querying for information (for example, starting motions) I get the error message "Internal Server Error".  I can still do commands like depth SIN, balance, folio etc. but if I try to do anything along the lines of starting a motion I get that error.

I have still not heard back from him, I have sent him a forum message in addition to the email I sent so hopefully he get's back to me soon.  Once I put the motion up it will last for 5 days so that hopefully all investors can get a chance to vote.

Actually the deal with dishwara fell through and we never actually got anything from them.

Keep in mind he'll be determining what the rigs are worth after we send them to him, as in, we have no idea and no control over what we would be getting in exchange for them.

This is correct, and once I get my client updated I will set forth a motion concerning these matters.

He has already stated he is not interested in that arrangement.

As per the contract under which SIN was formed, I will be calling for a motion to wrap up and liquidate the company:


I will announce when the motion is up, currently my client of GLBSE is out of date and I am waiting for Nefario to email me back with links to the updated files.  In the event of the motion passing, I will begin to sell SIN's assets and paying off the money to shareholders via GLBSE.

So what?  Corporations and businesses are completely within their rights to not employ people who want to unionize.

To demystify the situation, shakaru and I are currently discussing a deal concerning the wrapping up of SIN.  No decisions have been made yet.

After paying the last two electric bills, SIN still has $309,50 in the bank.

Time, and low electricity costs.


Until the next electric bill comes, I can't be certain, as many factors make precise estimation of the bill almost impossible, as well as the fact that we were operating at somewhat of a loss for a short period, but I think it may be close.


Very true.  I cannot say what the return will be in that case, as many people bought in at many different prices, and their investments were not always sold at prices close to that of the time when they invested the BTC.


Once again, I can not give an exact figure at this time, as the next electric bill has not yet been received.  It will be soon, however, and then I can give an account of that.  I would like to say that we have no funds held in BTC at the moment, what extra we have is held in USD.


The price was actually around 3,90 USD when I made that post, and it has continued to fall.  This of course will push down difficulty as more people drop out, but at the time it would have been marginally profitable, probably only being in the black by a few bitcents.  I am anxious to see where the difficulty and price goes from here.


Basically I look at what our operating costs have typically been, then I check that against the current price of BTC and the current difficulty as well as what little forecasting can be done with the BTC economy and then make the call.  As a rule, if each share that gets paid receives less than .005 BTC, I start considering it marginally profitable, and if it continues I see no reason to continue.  Once again, some time during this week I will be able give an accurate account of how much money we have in reserve.  That $600 is a high estimate, as the market for GPUs (which is basically what it would be paying for) has come down quite a bit.  That number is a worst case scenario at worst, my pessimistic side at best.  I understand your request for an account of my compensation, and I will do my best to provide it as soon as possible.


I will send you an email this week and we can discuss plans in the event of liquidation of SIN.  Thank you for your interest.

The rigs in their current state can produce around 8-9 Ghps.  There are three computers down right now, two that won't stay on for reasons I was unable to determine and one that has need for graphics card replacement.  The two that won't stay on need a few days of playing with to figure out.  The one that needs new graphics cards needs either about $600 put into it or XFX and Gigabyte to stop giving me the runaround on the RMA.

If and when we decide that the company should be liquidated, depending on what the Bitcoin climate is, an investor could see a decent return based on what the price of BTC was when they invested (those who invested at higher prices will see more BTC, etc.)  If we pull out when prices are low like they are now, the liquidated funds will buy a lot more BTC than if the price jumps back up, and investors will get a lot more of their investment back.

I see a lot of concern with the efficiency of the machines being run, and that we should still be able to operate profitably.  I would like to make a very important point that many people who go into business mistakenly ignore: the cost of operation that I calculator for the machines is not limited to the energy costs, it also includes the cost of replacement for the parts as well.  It is important to do this when your income depends on any machines, because yes, we could be operating "profitably", but what happens when the rigs start breaking from running 24/7 at max load for a year?  All of a sudden we have a bunch of broken machines and no money to replace them with because we've been operating "profitably".  So with the cost of electricity, I add the cost of replacement, and that does effect us to the point of not being able to operate in the current condition of the economy.

With difficulty falling, all it will take is for the price of BTC to jump up 15-20 cents, and we will be able to mine profitably again.  However, I would say that unless we are making more than marginal őprofits, we should keep the rigs down.  There is no point in mining for the sake of mining, and putting more and more wear and tear on the rigs lowers their value.  I am not sure what the best method of moving forward is right now, and how we should go about deciding the future of the company.  I am open to suggestions.

Difficulty needs to fall down to 1500000 or the price needs to come up to about $5.60.


100's of man-hours have been provided for this business at absolutely no charge, in addition to the majority of the infrastructure (cables, routers, shelves, the building, etc.)  That's money the business was saved, and that is money I counted towards my debt to the business, in addition to my reinvesting.